tigers shoulders

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Chris Sturgess

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Yeah, that's true, teaching has to do with communicating what you know and playing doesn't. But that is not what this is about at all. Nobody is criticizing Tiger Woods' teaching abilities. They are criticizing his swinging the golf club and playing well abilities. So while true, that is an apples and oranges comparison you have there. The act of criticizing Tiger Woods swing or ability I think is fine. The attitudes of "I know more about how to swing a golf club and play well than Tiger" is an absolute joke. Make your criticisms of better players playing abilities humble people, that is all I'm saying.
 
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Chris Sturgess

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Huh? What is your point supposed to be? Nobody on this forum, or on earth other than maybe Jack Nicklaus knows more about playing golf well than Tiger Woods.
 
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Chris Sturgess

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Not with respect to a golf swing that performs the best. If they understand how a golf swing that performs well is done so deeply then surely could do it themselves to a very high degree. Like, winning majors and multiple tour events. There aren't really any physical excuses, look at Craig Stadler and Tim Herron. If they can't do that then they don't really understand the golf swing as well as Tiger does or as well as they think they do.
 
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Kevin Shields

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Look, I didn't realize i was being arrogant or condescending. Anyone who knows me would agree that i'm not. I also didn't think i came across as saying i know more than Tiger does. You have to realize that while Tiger is the greatest talent ever, he has relied on teachers his entire life. Do you think it's not possible that somewhere along the line he got bad info and worked on the wrong things? Is that not possible?
 
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Kevin Shields

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Chris Sturgess said:
Not with respect to a golf swing that performs the best. If they understand how a golf swing that performs well is done so deeply then surely could do it themselves to a very high degree. Like, winning majors and multiple tour events. There aren't really any physical excuses, look at Craig Stadler and Tim Herron. If they can't do that then they don't really understand the golf swing as well as Tiger does or as well as they think they do.
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I do agree that if you truly understand a high level swing you should be able to really hit it. (not necessarily win majors :) Lot more to it than that.
 
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mb6606

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Does anyone think that Tiger may be hittng rather than swinging?
In Hitting the shoulders don't spin like a flywheel. Thus the shoulders could be square or even closed.
 
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pecky987

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Chris Sturgess said:
Not with respect to a golf swing that performs the best. If they understand how a golf swing that performs well is done so deeply then surely could do it themselves to a very high degree. Like, winning majors and multiple tour events. There aren't really any physical excuses, look at Craig Stadler and Tim Herron. If they can't do that then they don't really understand the golf swing as well as Tiger does or as well as they think they do.
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sorry to say this, but why hasnt he been banned yet? hes just always causing arguments over nothing. and being rude to good people whilst hes doing it.

so go on then Chris, im waiting for another pointless, argumentative post from the all knowing, all powerfull, all knowledgable Chris Sturgess
 
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Chris Sturgess

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All knowing? What are you crazy? I am the one who admits to knowing very little about how to play golf in comparison to Tiger Woods. And I am amused by other people thinking they know more.
 
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Chris Sturgess

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doubled said:
Look, I didn't realize i was being arrogant or condescending. Anyone who knows me would agree that i'm not. I also didn't think i came across as saying i know more than Tiger does. You have to realize that while Tiger is the greatest talent ever, he has relied on teachers his entire life. Do you think it's not possible that somewhere along the line he got bad info and worked on the wrong things? Is that not possible?
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I'm not accusing you specifically of anything. It I were to point fingers it would be more along the lines of self mastery.

You are absolutely wrong that Tiger has "relied" on teachers his entire life. He has worked with teachers, but he is not relying on them. The only person he relies on is himself. An accurate word would be that he "consults" with teachers. He just wants to see what they have to say and see if it will help him. No teacher knows more about playing golf well than Tiger, or else they would be able to at least win multiple pga events. They just might have a couple pockets of knowledge that he doesn't have. The teachers have way more to learn from Tiger than Tiger has to learn from them, waaay more.
 
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bendet3

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You are absolutely wrong that Tiger has "relied" on teachers his entire life. He has worked with teachers, but he is not relying on them. The only person he relies on is himself. An accurate word would be that he "consults" with teachers. He just wants to see what they have to say and see if it will help him. No teacher knows more about playing golf well than Tiger, or else they would be able to at least win multiple pga events. They just might have a couple pockets of knowledge that he doesn't have. The teachers have way more to learn from Tiger than Tiger has to learn from them, waaay more.
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I have to laugh at this, you mock others for making comments for which they are supposedly not qualified to make, but you feel that you are qualified to comment on how and why Tiger uses instructors? If you are a close personal friend of his then I will apologize in advance, otherwise I find your logic quite hypocritical.

The last part about swing instructors not being as knowledgeable on the golf swing as Tiger because they haven't won tour events is also laughable. I would wager that the likes of Brian Manzella and Ben Doyle know more about the golf swing than one Tiger Woods, can they execute it at the same level as him, of course not, but this does not preclude them from have more knowledge than him.
 
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Chris Sturgess

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You don't need to be a close personal friend of Tiger's to see he doesn't rely on instructors. First of all, he blatantly says he doesn't rely on them. Secondly, when he leaves an instructor his game does not fall apart, he's perfectly fine.

If they know so much then why can't they execute? Physical ability is not much of an issue, Tim Herron, Craig Stadler, etc. The bottom line is that they don't actually know what to do to the level that Tiger Woods does, or else they would be able to do it. At the very least win multiple tour events. So why can't they do it?
 
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thefuture37

Banned
bendet3 said:
The last part about swing instructors not being as knowledgeable on the golf swing as Tiger because they haven't won tour events is also laughable. I would wager that the likes of Brian Manzella and Ben Doyle know more about the golf swing than one Tiger Woods, can they execute it at the same level as him, of course not, but this does not preclude them from have more knowledge than him.
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For a player, it doesn't matter if they know tons about the golf swing, if that knowledge doesn't work for their golf swing. So instructors may know more about the golf swing, but that doesn't mean they know more about what will personally work for an individual player. For example, Brian has talked about how he thought changing something about David Toms swing would make him hit better, but in reality it made him worse. So even though he knew what would improve his swing in theory, it was not true in reality.
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

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shortgamer said:
Tigers scoring average is 66.12 this year! Unbelievable. He's got 3 strokes on lefty per round:)
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That is amazing! His lead over #2 is greater than #2's lead on #hundred-and-whatever in the world rankings as well. Just a stretch of pure dominance going on.
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

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Jus trying to re-focus...

I hope that everyone interested in the thread title hasn't abandoned this thread yet. Anybody have any thoughts on square shoulders at impact? The 1997 overhead sequence of Tiger shows his shoulders as being VERY open at impact with a 3 wood.

Do you think it would be fair to try and convince these publications to disclaim at the bottom of a swing sequence the shot shape and result? Now THAT would be an advancement in golf instruction publishing...
 
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pecky987

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mjstrong said:
I hope that everyone interested in the thread title hasn't abandoned this thread yet. Anybody have any thoughts on square shoulders at impact? The 1997 overhead sequence of Tiger shows his shoulders as being VERY open at impact with a 3 wood.

Do you think it would be fair to try and convince these publications to disclaim at the bottom of a swing sequence the shot shape and result? Now THAT would be an advancement in golf instruction publishing...
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hear, hear!

i always think that. a slow motion swing or sequence is nothing if you dont know the result.

i mean, saying "look at how open his shoulders are at impact!" means nothing, if you neglect to mention that they hit a huge pull
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Chris Sturgess said:
I'm not accusing you specifically of anything. It I were to point fingers it would be more along the lines of self mastery.
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But self mastery is funny Chris.

mjstrong said:
shortgamer said:
Tigers scoring average is 66.12 this year! Unbelievable. He's got 3 strokes on lefty per round:)
Click to expand...
That is amazing! His lead over #2 is greater than #2's lead on #hundred-and-whatever in the world rankings as well. Just a stretch of pure dominance going on.
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Pretty good this guy is. Butbutbut.....that IS only over 2 events, right?

Someone else: "Butbutbut he will surely keep it up the whole year!! He is playing like he is POSSEEEEEESSSEDDD!!!!!"

Me: "Right now only 2 events."
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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mjstrong said:
I hope that everyone interested in the thread title hasn't abandoned this thread yet. Anybody have any thoughts on square shoulders at impact? The 1997 overhead sequence of Tiger shows his shoulders as being VERY open at impact with a 3 wood.

Do you think it would be fair to try and convince these publications to disclaim at the bottom of a swing sequence the shot shape and result? Now THAT would be an advancement in golf instruction publishing...
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Good job mj.

Tongzilla just started a thread that is related BTW.
 
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