U.S. Open Shows Gimmicks and Copy Cats Not The Way - by Brian Manzella

Status
Not open for further replies.
What are you on so i can have some? Berman was absolutely horrible and has no place in golf. Golf is GOLF, not football, baseball, or any other sport he wants to talk about.

Berman couldn't resisit doing the comparison piece about the great NFL quarterbacks from Western PA and golf. Like Oakmont has something to do with football. I wish they would resist all the human interest talking head pieces and stick to the golf. Show more of the field and not just Tiger, Mickelson etc. The same reason I stopped watching the Olympics.
 
Last edited:
tigerriffic....!

Well, after hearing that ratings were up something like 30% from last year's US Open final round coverage, I have a feeling that the Tiger-centric coverage won't change anytime soon.

I'll admit it was odd hearing Berman doing some coverage, but I found some of it humorous. Johnny Miller is on his way to 'jumping the shark' for me.

I still enjoy Feherty, McCord, and Faldo.

What would the ratings have been had Tiger not been in the last group or somewhere near it!!!! To see the other golfers would require Tiger to be out of contention. Quite the rub.

Yes, it would be nice to have seen other golfers out there. But, let's face it, those that appreciate other golfers are in the minority. Tiger has saved golf from going the men's tennis route and America and the world still can't get enough of him. We demand that his every shot is captured. I was alarmed that NBC did not cover one of his tap ins...!

Berman is there cuz he's a fixture, near icon for ABC and ESPN. The Bermans, Nances, Costas'...we identify with their personalities and they're good, even for golf...

General Electric was sleeping like a baby on a mattress full of money knowing Tiger was in the last group on sunday...
 
Well, after hearing that ratings were up something like 30% from last year's US Open final round coverage, I have a feeling that the Tiger-centric coverage won't change anytime soon.

I'll admit it was odd hearing Berman doing some coverage, but I found some of it humorous. Johnny Miller is on his way to 'jumping the shark' for me.

I still enjoy Feherty, McCord, and Faldo.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Especially the Johnny Miller comment. I almost find that once he got popular "just telling it like it is", that he tends to go out of his way now to say controversial things. I still remember him making a derogatory comment about Craig Perry's swing a couple of years ago while he was on his way to winning a tournament and thinking that there is a difference between "telling it like it is" and just being rude.

The Tiger-centric coverage can be irritating but it is understandable from a business stand-point. Tiger is who gets them their ratings, it's been proven.

I like Feherty and Faldo the best myself.
 
What are you on so i can have some? Berman was absolutely horrible and has no place in golf. Golf is GOLF, not football, baseball, or any other sport he wants to talk about.

Hahahaha.....Jim....I'm only on life....and water perhaps............(no JUICE).....

....

You really thought he was THAT bad...??
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Hahahaha.....Jim....I'm only on life....and water perhaps............(no JUICE).....

....

You really thought he was THAT bad...??

Yes, and it wasn't even the other related sports comment i can understand that from someone who has become a 'character' on TV

BUT

He was TRYING to make everything "exciting" and i'm sorry, but golf isn't always exciting. Hard to make boring moments on TV look exciting, and when you try you look stupid like Berman did.
 
I'm with you, Jim. If I hear Berman say "WWWWWWOWWWW!!!" after another mediocre golf shot, I'm going to off myself. He knows nothing about golf. He's announcing golf because he works for ESPN and comes up with retarded knicknames (David "Ground Control to Major" Toms! WTF does that even mean??!).
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
To be honest, i think Berman could be an "ok" commentator. Nothing really good, but good enough for the couple times he might have to do it.

BUT

He needs to step outside the "swami" hat and just be NORMAL.
 
hey teris

"ground control to major tom" was a classic 80's tune...4-3-2-1- earth below us.....remember?? u may be a youngster!
 
Celebrity Caddies

Another thing, STOP with the selective naming of teachers and caddies. either say ALL of the names in the same context, or none.

This also annoys me very much. Who for example can remember the names of anyone who caddied for Hogan, Nicklaus, Trevino, etc?

I find this new phenomenon of celebrity caddies very annoying. I think if I was lucky enough to be good enough to play tour golf my caddies duties would only include carrying my clubs and keeping them dry and clean. Just like Nicklaus, Hogan and may other great players
 

lia41985

New member
Why was my post deleted? All I said was that you guys should take it easy on Berman and that if it's so bad to listen to him, you should just go out and work on your games. I also mentioned that Berman nicknamed David "Ground Control to Major" Toms because of the David Bowie song. Is that so controversial and inflammatory?

Anyways, Tiger's golf swing is always evolving. None of us know what he's working on. As a youngster who worked with Rudy Duran, he had a pretty flat swing. After moving to John Anselmo in his teens, his action became more upright. Under Butch he added width and shortened up his action. With Haney he's working on a more rounded move.

Like any golfer, Tiger has tendencies in his swing that he fights against: squatting too much to start his downswing and having the club come from too far inside on the downswing. As Clampett wrote in his "Impact Zone" book, Tiger's current swing is noticeably above the plane. As many have noted, Tiger rotates his left arm on his backstroke more than maybe any professional golfer. These are probably two ways for him to combat tendency number two in his golf swing. I don't know what he's working on to combat the squatting. Haney said he wanted Tiger to emulate Annika's head movement on the down and through swing. This could get his chin staying up high and thus, possibly prevent too much squatting. I'm not sure. Just putting it out there.

Regardless, the thesis of this thread is something I disagree. Someone brought up the great point about how it's inconsistent to say that Badds's putting routine is gimmicky but Furyk's isn't--they're both great putters. Also, why is it not permissible to teach people via a "feel is not real" approach? TMG'ers seem to criticize that a lot. Unless you're contantly looking at video, it's hard to know what you're body is really doing.

Moving on, Tiger hit the ball great at the Open but couldn't make a birdie putt to save his life. That's the only reason he didn't win. He had a what, 3 or 4 foot birdie putt that he missed. Otherwise, there would be a playoff that nerve-wrecked Angel would have certainly lost. Regardless, credit to Cabrera for hitting some amazing shots down the stretch.

Noone truly owns their game or their swing and professionals, more than any of us, are constantly looking for ways to get better--call it gimmicky or copy-catting. It's pretty easy to say that from the peanut gallery.

Brian, you seem to know so much about the golf swing, but you're know-it-all tone is just too much. Let me pass along some words I read in a Haney interview. I'm not a Hank fan--a huge Tiger fan that only cares about his improvement. I'm not sure if he's getting better with Haney. If he's satisfied keeping him as a coach, he must be. When you have a weekly thread criticizing the undisputed greatest player in the world who has finished 1, 1, 2, 2 in the last 4 majors and was basically 3 to 4 short and mid-range putts from winning ANOTHER grand slam, you're libel to be thought of as "full of it".

I'm sure this will be deleted, but I don't care. You could really do yourself well by ditching that attitude and make your way into the mainstream and earn the "popular" respect you deserve. Without a doubt, you know more about the details and the complexities of the golf swing than anyone I've ever come across. So good for you on that.

Just like you'll probably delete this post. Which is fine. It's your forum. It's your business. Maybe you'll even ban me. That's fine too. But it really shows a lack of credibility when you criticize other teachers and their followers as being "Kool-Aiders" when you go around deleting fair criticisms.
 
Last edited:

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Lia...is that your real name?

There are things we don't talk about on this forum, and you brought up a couple of them.

It is my job to keep things civil around these parts, and once I got the big AXE out a couple of years ago, things around here are a lot better.

I edited your post (above) a bit, reflecting the "unwritten rules" around here.

But, I left most of it stand and I will attempt to answer your criticisms.

Here we go:

Why was my post deleted? All I said was that you guys should take it easy on Berman and that if it's so bad to listen to him, you should just go out and work on your games. I also mentioned that Berman nicknamed David "Ground Control to Major" Toms because of the David Bowie song. Is that so controversial and inflammatory?

No. But—like I said above—we really don't talk about certain things on this forum.

Anyways, Tiger's golf swing is always evolving. None of us know what he's working on. As a youngster who worked with Rudy Duran, he had a pretty flat swing. After moving to John Anselmo in his teens, his action became more upright. Under Butch he added width and shortened up his action. With Haney he's working on a more rounded move.

So far, so good.

Like any golfer, Tiger has tendencies in his swing that he fights against: squatting too much to start his downswing and having the club come from too far inside on the downswing. As Clampett wrote in his "Impact Zone" book, Tiger's current swing is noticeably above the plane. As many have noted, Tiger rotates his left arm on his backstroke more than maybe any professional golfer. These are probably two ways for him to combat tendency number two in his golf swing. I don't know what he's working on to combat the squatting. Haney said he wanted Tiger to emulate Annika's head movement on the down and through swing. This could get his chin staying up high and thus, possibly prevent too much squatting. I'm not sure. Just putting it out there.

I am not a Haney fan. He had 1000's of really good players come to him over the years with money to spend. Where are they now?

Haney, like ANY OTHER METHOD TEACHER, is trying to justify their METHOD through a student. I know all about it, becuase I did it too a LONG TIME AGO. I have crossed over that bridge, and am into TOTALLY CUSTOMIZED SOLUTIONS.

I have talked at length about my opions of Haney and I was 100% justified in all of them.

I am saying, he needs to ADJUST with Tiger. Because Tiger is TOO GOOD to hit it like he is hitting it. How do I know? He hit it better in 2000, didn't he?

Haney won't adjust. I would. Next.

Regardless, the thesis of this thread is something I disagree. Someone brought up the great point about how it's inconsistent to say that Badds's putting routine is gimmicky but Furyk's isn't--they're both great putters.

Furyk VARIES the routine until he is comfortable. Time him.

Badds tries to "trick himself" into the idea that every putt is the same. Nope. Your brain knows better.

Also, why is it not permissible to teach people via a "feel is not real" approach? TMG'ers seem to criticize that a lot. Unless you're contantly looking at video, it's hard to know what you're body is really doing.

I do it all the time. But I tell the world when I am doing it. The S&T crew basically says, no, this IS the way they want you to swing. Either way, he looks to flat on the backswing and too "check swing-y" going through.

ADJUST guys. They won't. I would. Next.

Moving on, Tiger hit the ball great at the Open but couldn't make a birdie putt to save his life. That's the only reason he didn't win. He had a what, 3 or 4 foot birdie putt that he missed. Otherwise, there would be a playoff that nerve-wrecked Angel would have certainly lost. Regardless, credit to Cabrera for hitting some amazing shots down the stretch.

He hit it GREAT on Sunday?

What are you drinking?

Noone truly owns their game or their swing and professionals, more than any of us, are constantly looking for ways to get better--call it gimmicky or copy-catting. It's pretty easy to say that from the peanut gallery.

Pal, I spend time "behind the ropes," and when I do, the RESULTS speak for themselves. Peanut Gallery?

Give me a break. Next.

Brian, you seem to know so much about the golf swing, but you're know-it-all tone is just too much. Let me pass along some words I read in a Haney interview. I'm not a Hank fan--a huge Tiger fan that only cares about his improvement. I'm not sure if he's getting better with Haney. If he's satisfied keeping him as a coach, he must be. When you have a weekly thread criticizing the undisputed greatest player in the world who has finished 1, 1, 2, 2 in the last 4 majors and was basically 3 to 4 short and mid-range putts from winning ANOTHER grand slam, you're libel to be thought of as "full of it".

3 and Half MILLION hits a month with ZERO ADVERTISING.

To be honest, I don't tell it like it is enough.

I pull hard for Tiger everytime he has a chance. I like Tiger. I just don't like his pattern.

Understand? Next.

I'm sure this will be deleted, but I don't care. You could really do yourself well by ditching that attitude and make your way into the mainstream and earn the "popular" respect you deserve. Without a doubt, you know more about the details and the complexities of the golf swing than anyone I've ever come across. So good for you on that.

Don't try that "throw me a bone" routine. Your posts have had a "reg flag" on them since #1. Why come on my site to start in on me? You OBVIOUSLY have a horse in the race.

Mainstream?

I'll have my own NETWORK one day. You'll be welcome to come on the "debate Brian" hour. It will be fun.

Next.

Just like you'll probably delete this post. Which is fine. It's your forum. It's your business. Maybe you'll even ban me. That's fine too. But it really shows a lack of credibility when you criticize other teachers and their followers as being "Kool-Aiders" when you go around deleting fair criticisms.

We only call folks Kool-Aiders when they earn it.

Your criticisms could ONLY be called fair if you would tell us all who you are.

But you won't. So, next!
 
Otherwise, there would be a playoff that nerve-wrecked Angel would have certainly lost. Regardless, credit to Cabrera for hitting some amazing shots down the stretch.

Not worried about commenting on anything else you said.....but..........do we just give Tiger the trophy? No wayyyyy.

Anyway.....sorry that's just a massive pet-peeve of mine.

I'm not a Hank fan--a huge Tiger fan that only cares about his improvement.

Figurrrrresssssss............:p ;)
 
Last edited:

lia41985

New member
Brian was kind enough to give me his number. I'll call you Brian and tell you who am. You'll understand that I don't have a "horse in the race".
 

lia41985

New member
Just spoke to Brian on the phone for 80 minutes! Unbelievable. Loved talking to him. Incredibly knowledgeable and nice.

Long story short: I'm wiping the egg of my face and regret a lot of what I said. Anywho, I'm planning to drive down to Louisville and see him for a lesson.
 

Tom Bartlett

Administrator
Just spoke to Brian on the phone for 80 minutes! Unbelievable. Loved talking to him. Incredibly knowledgeable and nice.

Long story short: I'm wiping the egg of my face and regret a lot of what I said. Anywho, I'm planning to drive down to Louisville and see him for a lesson.

This tends to be a common theme with Brian. Nothing at all like he is perceived to be.
 

Chris Sturgess

New member
Then maybe he and Jim should stop using ALL CAPS on the message board SO OFTEN. It's kind of like they're YELLING and it's kind of OBNOXIOUS.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top