Updated swing--fixed clubface?

[spktho]

The darn USGA groove rules has made almost all Ping irons non-conforming...like none of the S58's and the only tested S59 (6 iron) is also nonforming. You know us ams not competing at the highest level get till 2025 to use such equipment, but still....somethign to consider.

Definitely something to consider. At least my mp32's conform.

i don't know the history of this swing, but...the transition is a bit steep and the release is a little early requiring a forward slide to avoid hitting fat. I know this move as I have done it for a long time!

I have always had the forward slide and I think it did start as an anti-fat move as well as an attempt to help square the face. I think the more I work on the face and path, the better it will get. I can consciously not move my head or slide at all and still hit the ball without leakage, but it just feels so restricted and robotic. The steep transition helps me swing left to avoid the hooks. The early release is again probably from face issues and has been there all along. I also throw my right arm pretty hard(many years of playing shortstop). And right now when I try to add wrist cock, I open up the face. Watching Steve Stricker this weekend, I think he does pretty well with what most would call an early release. As the Manzella instructors here say all the time, and I believe it now too, fix the face of a slicer, then you can do a lot of other things much better.

 

[spktho]

Ping s59's or s58's.

I was looking at the 58's on the net and also saw the 59's. Not much difference that I could see. About 10-12 years ago I bought some Ping Eye 2's (not the +) and just didn't like the feel or the look of them and sold them after about 6 months. Of course, my swing sucked too. But, I haven't hit or looked at any other Pings since. I recently hit some i3 blades and again they felt ok, look good, but I couldn't tell about the forgiveness as far as distance control goes.

 

[softconsult]

Clubs are like shoes. You can't really tell if they fit correctly until you try them on. A while back, just for the hell of it, I bought an S-58 6 iron on eBay. Back to back comparison with my 695 CB Project X 6 iron revealed that the the Ping just felt too light and was more difficult to hit out of the rough. I find it difficult to control a light feeling iron.

Out of curiosity, what shaft are you playing in your Mizunos?

 

[spktho]

Clubs are like shoes. You can't really tell if they fit correctly until you try them on. A while back, just for the hell of it, I bought an S-58 6 iron on eBay. Back to back comparison with my 695 CB Project X 6 iron revealed that the the Ping just felt too light and was more difficult to hit out of the rough. I find it difficult to control a light feeling iron.

Out of curiosity, what shaft are you playing in your Mizunos?

Dynamic Gold s300. I may be fine with what I have, but there's always the chance that it could be better.

I'd like to try some other shafts, like the Project X flighted and/or KBS, but for the price of the re-shafting, I'd be better off getting a set of used clubs already with whatever shaft.

 

[billmckinneygolf]

spktho
That swing looks like it's right out of one of Bobby Schaeffer's or my own dvds.
If I could say one thing, I think you could slide your pelvis a wee bit more
to the target on the downswing. That will give your right shoulder more
room to work down plane.
Just IMO.

 

[spktho]

spktho
That swing looks like it's right out of one of Bobby Schaeffer's or my own dvds.
If I could say one thing, I think you could slide your pelvis a wee bit more
to the target on the downswing. That will give your right shoulder more
room to work down plane.
Just IMO.

Yep, your vhs tapes(before I had a dvd player) were definitely big influences. I still like watching the one where Bobby dressed like the old fashioned golfer. Kevin, Jim and others have suggested the same thing with my pelvis and right shoulder. I've been working on it. I can do the "candy cane" hips pretty good in slow motion, but put a ball down and things change.

Here's my latest and best swing yet: The first swing in the sequence had the best ball flight but a funky left knee motion.

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[Kevin Shields]

Really good stuff. I know it doesnt help you but id love to take a real close up look at your grip.

 

[rprevost]

Is this a fade swing or a draw swing? Or a straight-ball swing?

 

[golfdad]

spktho,,,real nice swing, very solid.

since i am not in any position to give others swing advice, here is my .002 cents. just enough to get myself into trouble.

like billmckinney suggested-hope i am not misunderstanding him-i sense with my failing eyesight a teeny weeny bit of a OTT move at the very beginning of the downswing, or during the transition, however you look at it. it is very slight: the first move seems coming from the base and immediately transfers into a shoulder turn, placing the hands slightly OTT. different people loop differently from the top. on the downswing, some loop inside and lower, with thin or fat loop. from your video, i've got a sense your thin loop is slightly outside and lower. i think this move forces you to compensate on the downswing, with clubface or others, to veer back onto the right track, or to square the face independently, instead of swinging through with more freedom which you are fully capable of by the look of your setup, without thinking anymore about the clubface.

(now running to climb under my rock, haha)

 

[jbrunk]

spktho,,,real nice swing, very solid.

since i am not in any position to give others swing advice, here is my .002 cents. just enough to get myself into trouble.

like billmckinney suggested-hope i am not misunderstanding him-i sense with my failing eyesight a teeny weeny bit of a OTT move at the very beginning of the downswing, or during the transition, however you look at it. it is very slight: the first move seems coming from the base and immediately transfers into a shoulder turn, placing the hands slightly OTT. different people loop differently from the top. on the downswing, some loop inside and lower, with thin or fat loop. from your video, i've got a sense your thin loop is slightly outside and lower. i think this move forces you to compensate on the downswing, with clubface or others, to veer back onto the right track, or to square the face independently, instead of swinging through with more freedom which you are fully capable of by the look of your setup, without thinking anymore about the clubface.

(now running to climb under my rock, haha)

I think you and Bill are seeing 'the carry' which has a look of slight OTT. I guess it would be possible to overdo the carry though.

I love this swing. He is doing many of the things I have been working on for years.

 

[spktho]

Thanks for compliments. I owe it to Brian, Kevin, Jim and this forum to make the necessary changes with some work and a lot of good information.

Really good stuff. I know it doesnt help you but id love to take a real close up look at your grip.

I would love for you to have a look.

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Is this a fade swing or a draw swing? Or a straight-ball swing?

I have been working on hitting it dead straight. All three of these balls were. The first was dead on. The second about 5 yards left. The third about 20 feet right.

spktho,,,real nice swing, very solid.

since i am not in any position to give others swing advice, here is my .002 cents. just enough to get myself into trouble.

like billmckinney suggested-hope i am not misunderstanding him-i sense with my failing eyesight a teeny weeny bit of a OTT move at the very beginning of the downswing, or during the transition, however you look at it. it is very slight: the first move seems coming from the base and immediately transfers into a shoulder turn, placing the hands slightly OTT. different people loop differently from the top. on the downswing, some loop inside and lower, with thin or fat loop. from your video, i've got a sense your thin loop is slightly outside and lower. i think this move forces you to compensate on the downswing, with clubface or others, to veer back onto the right track, or to square the face independently, instead of swinging through with more freedom which you are fully capable of by the look of your setup, without thinking anymore about the clubface.

(now running to climb under my rock, haha)

Yep, I was way ott with a wide open club face for about 10 years until I found Brian and this site, then I still didn't "get it" until I bought a camera with slow motion and saw how the changes I thought I was making weren't changes at all. I can get the club under plane if I really try, but it feels really weird plus as I read here, not many good things can come from it. So, I have been using video and ball flight to get a swing showing aspects that I am trying to incorporate and hit a straight ball. You are correct that my tendency is to come too far ott, or as JBrunk says have too much carry. When I do this I either hit a straight pull, a pull fade, or if it's real bad a pull draw. I also tend to hit a lot of the shots Brian says almost drove him out of the game, the ball that starts at the target and draws.

 

[SteveT]

Love your 'parametric acceleration' from your left leg extension ... you must really feel the 'droop' ....

Btw .. what's all that nice water behind you ... Pacific, Atlantic or Great Lakes ...

 

[spktho]

Love your 'parametric acceleration' from your left leg extension ... you must really feel the 'droop' ....

Btw .. what's all that nice water behind you ... Pacific, Atlantic or Great Lakes ...

I thought you were of the view parametric acceleration is a separate force, so that doesn't apply to a golf swing since my left leg is attached to me and therefore the force is part of the system not separate? I like to think of it in Brian's simpler terms as the "jump" part of the "pull back, run up and jump". But, I really don't think about what the leg/knee is doing.

What you are seeing in the background is the San Bernardino National Forrest mountain range.

 

[SteveT]

I thought you were of the view parametric acceleration is a separate force, so that doesn't apply to a golf swing since my left leg is attached to me and therefore the force is part of the system not separate? I like to think of it in Brian's simpler terms as the "jump" part of the "pull back, run up and jump". But, I really don't think about what the leg/knee is doing.

No no ... you can do things within your body to supercharge your swing .. like parametric acceleration ... and thanks to natep emailing me the complete Miura paper, I am a believer. Now I just want to know from those who advocated PA if there are any other force sources ... tell all ...


BTW ... you have a "short left thumb" position for your gripping ... did you know that lil' gem?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Im hesitant but....very short thumb (limits wrist set, which you have) and a little weak (may be contributing to the early backswing roll)

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I agree with kevin slightly weak left grip, also hard to tell from the front view but it appears you have a bit of carry at the start of your downswing. Not necessarily a bad thing if you are consistently trying to create it, but if you aren't then at times you might over carry or under carry and lead to various ball flights

 

[spktho]

SteveT I'm sure you know much more than I on the physics of golf and can probably come up with more ways to use parametric acceleration in the swing.

Short thumb, huh? Never even thought about it. How does one lengthen their thumb? Is it as easy as just stretching it out down the grip?

I went to a weakish grip to help with stopping the left shot thinking it was from a closed club face issue, but as Jim and others have said, the lefts may be more of a path problem due to too much carry or ott at times.

I used a stronger grip at the range today with mixed results and hit a lot of draws that started at the target and missed left.

 

[natep]

"Short thumb, huh? Never even thought about it. How does one lengthen their thumb? Is it as easy as just stretching it out down the grip?"


Yes.

 

[ej20]

You guys think that is a slightly weak left hand grip?

It may appear so if you look at the knuckles showing but the thumb placement seems a little on the strong side.

I think thumb placement is a better indication of relative grip strength.Here is Mavers showing his grip with thumb placement directly on top of the shaft but still showing two knuckles.

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[spktho]

I don't know if it clarifies anything but, if checking the grip with the club face like Brian shows, it is very much a Manzella neutral grip.