VIDEO: Real World TrackMan Practice and Comments by Brian Manzella

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Michael Finney

Michael Finney

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eightiron and siteseer on golfwrx,

like someone else said, if the wear spot (on ben hogan's 1 iron) was slightly toward the heel, does that mean he was hitting off center shots or hitting the ball where the cog was actually located...

if someone is famous for hitting several shots in a row without taking another grip, would it be possible that he was hitting them all in the heel and the club wasn't twisting in his hands? - i don't think so....

to hate on trackman and the numbers it spits out is unbelievable to me - obviously, any tool has to be used correctly, but for a golf forum crowd (golfwrx) to chirp "paralysis by analysis" is comical....have you seen some of the things people get into around there (golfwrx)?

brian showed how a golfer with a basic understanding of resultant path and clubface angle can adjust from swing to swing during a PRACTICE session - that is all - we're talkin about PRACTICE

that shouldn't be too hard to understand
 
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ej20

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sideyard said:
I think Tuxen knows the importance of his creation and important role it will play with golf instruction and clubfitting.

Plus I'm sure that doppler radar technology isn't that cheap. Does anyone out there know what this technology costs and what it would take to put it in a box and sell it?

Matt
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Speed radar guns use the doppler effect.I can buy one for about $80.

I honestly think trackman is ludicrously overpriced because they have no competion.

Someone enterprising could get one,take it apart,get a company in China to make copies,sell them for $3000 and still make a handsome profit.Are they patented?
 
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spktho

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ej20 said:
Speed radar guns use the doppler effect.I can buy one for about $80.

I honestly think trackman is ludicrously overpriced because they have no competion.

Someone enterprising could get one,take it apart,get a company in China to make copies,sell them for $3000 and still make a handsome profit.Are they patented?
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You beat me to it.

I also have a radar gun for our baseball team. Paid $200 for it. It measures ball speed and bat swing speed using Doppler.
 
Michael Finney

Michael Finney

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and you have to have the collision model, the math that goes with it, the firmware, and a lawyer....

pretty sure it has a patent

take your pick - a new car or a trackman....most everyone on here will choose to walk - i think....
 
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savydan

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Competition is certainly part of it. Early in a new product life cycle, they're recovering R&D costs, promotion costs, building(s) and production equipment, new hires etc.
 
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savydan

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You can sometimes fly an airplane without instruments. But sometimes the instruments come in mighty handy. Why wouldn't you want to know why your ball or your airplane is doing what it's doing? Takes a lot of the guesswork out of it.
 
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Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
I can't believe anyone would take a shot at trackman....that has to be one of silliest things I have ever read.

Great video Brian and a great job displaying how trackman can be used
 
vjsinger

vjsinger

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Michael Finney said:
we're talkin about PRACTICE
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:)
 
mgranato

mgranato

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ej20 said:
Speed radar guns use the doppler effect.I can buy one for about $80.

I honestly think trackman is ludicrously overpriced because they have no competion.

Someone enterprising could get one,take it apart,get a company in China to make copies,sell them for $3000 and still make a handsome profit.Are they patented?
Click to expand...

The phased array 3D Doppler is only part of the equation. The South African company EDH (who make Flightscope) pioneered the use of 3D Doppler from military applications. What Trackman did with that was to combine it with incredible software and firmware. Their development on this side of the system is really what gave them a leg up on on EVERYONE and set them apart right off the bat. They introduced their software version with club tracking data at the end of '06, beginning of '07 - as a reference, Flightscope just released their software version with club tracking last month. A 3+ year head start on the competition is huge in any industry.

For all of it's capabilities, Doppler still has to calculate some the data groups it displays. Things like face angle, dynamic loft, spin axis, total distance, and total side distance are calculated rather than measured. Some of the newer photo based LM's claim to be able to measure the face, loft, and spin axis, but for my money, I'd choose Doppler's ability to track the ball's flight outdoors every time.
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

New
Michael Finney said:
eightiron and siteseer on golfwrx,

like someone else said, if the wear spot (on ben hogan's 1 iron) was slightly toward the heel, does that mean he was hitting off center shots or hitting the ball where the cog was actually located...

if someone is famous for hitting several shots in a row without taking another grip, would it be possible that he was hitting them all in the heel and the club wasn't twisting in his hands? - i don't think so....
Click to expand...

Mike,

I own 3 different sets of vintage Hogan irons and possibly a 4th set soon. I own '63 IPT's, '67 Percussions (greatest set of irons I've ever hit), and '83 Apex PC's.

Without question, the COG is more towards the heel. If you hit a shot in the middle of the face, you will hit a very nice, solid shot. But if you want to catch a shot FLUSH, you need to be a little more towards a heel.

I asked Tom Wishon about the difference in modern vs. vintage blade designs and here's what he said:

It is true that old blades did typically end up with the center of gravity closer to the heel side of the face while more modern designs will have the CG more in the center of the face scoreline area. This is chiefly because back in the 60s and before that, few of the club companies really knew much about the center of gravity of a clubhead and did not know all that much about how to control its position.

By the 80s, more companies were becoming aware of the importance and control of the CG, so irons designed in this era are not typically going to show the CG being that much off center toward the heel. Some models in this era, yes, but not as many as you would see in the 60s and before that.

As to the vertical height of the CG, the only way you would see an early blade design with a lower CG than today's blades is if the old blade was designed with a shorter blade height and/or a more narrow sole. Yes, you did see a few more blades of the 60s and before that did have both a little shorter blade height, so in these specific cases, the CG could be a little lower. However, because there were more old blade designs with a little more narrow sole than you see today, that would have negated somewhat the lower CG that comes along with a shorter blade height.

So at the end of the day, from my yrs of experience in design and club analysis, I would say that old blades definitely had more tendency for the CG to be on the heel side of the center of the face, but the vertical CG positions would not tend to be lower than blades of today.
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It's puzzling to me why it goes over somebody's head that Trackman can make things easier for the golfer and they can learn quicker. But I tend to trust Wishon's thoughts on something that is a FACT that the vintage irons had COG's closer to the heel than today's irons.
 
Michael Finney

Michael Finney

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Richie3Jack said:
Mike,

I own 3 different sets of vintage Hogan irons and possibly a 4th set soon. I own '63 IPT's, '67 Percussions (greatest set of irons I've ever hit), and '83 Apex PC's.

Without question, the COG is more towards the heel. If you hit a shot in the middle of the face, you will hit a very nice, solid shot. But if you want to catch a shot FLUSH, you need to be a little more towards a heel.

I asked Tom Wishon about the difference in modern vs. vintage blade designs and here's what he said:



It's puzzling to me why it goes over somebody's head that Trackman can make things easier for the golfer and they can learn quicker. But I tend to trust Wishon's thoughts on something that is a FACT that the vintage irons had COG's closer to the heel than today's irons.
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thanks for that, richie....sometimes i wonder why i bother, but it's all in fun
 
jeffgladchun

jeffgladchun

New
Michael Finney said:
brian, casio camera, trackman, iphone, video codec, family, job, and reality

chip you have a great idea - brian needs a protege to get to all the good ideas - like george costanza needed his protege to read the risk management textbook....

anybody not doing anything for the next 3 years?
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Shotgun.
 
mgranato

mgranato

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Oh, they're out there - and there's more than a couple of them:eek:

Of course there's also the folks who think/believe that draws have topspin :rolleyes:
 
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