VOTE: Why Pros use Elbow Plane

Status
Not open for further replies.
golfbulldog

golfbulldog

New
rundmc said:
They are on the Elbow Plane because they all use a shoulder turn takeaway.
Click to expand...

Take away motion need not dictate impact plane angle. They mostly go to turned shoulder plane at at top but that does not explian why they are elbow plane at impact.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
rundmc said:
They are on the Elbow Plane because they all use a shoulder turn takeaway.
Click to expand...

I disagree strongly!

The Shoulder Turn Takeaway has gotten a bad rap from the 'east coast tgm' school of thought. But, like it or not guys, most people play better with one (done correctly) and the Hall-of-Fame has next no ZERO Right Forearm Takeaway "members."

The Shoulder Turn Takeaway will promote—but NOT guarantee an Elbow Plane starting plane, and LOTS of those guys wind up as SINGLE SHIFTers.

The club tends to want to start up on its OWN plane in the takeaway, and 99.999999999999999999% of players don't have the club on the Turned Shoulder Plane at address.

Whew.
 
S

shootin4par

New
Brian Manzella said:
I disagree strongly!

The Shoulder Turn Takeaway has gotten a bad rap from the 'east coast tgm' school of thought. But, like it or not guys, most people play better with one (done correctly) and the Hall-of-Fame has next no ZERO Right Forearm Takeaway "members."

The Shoulder Turn Takeaway will promote—but NOT guarantee an Elbow Plane starting plane, and LOTS of those guys wind up as SINGLE SHIFTers.

The club tends to want to start up on its OWN plane in the takeaway, and 99.999999999999999999% of players don't have the club on the Turned Shoulder Plane at address.

Whew.
Click to expand...
hogan initiated with his hands, but you are saying he had a shouder turn take away?
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
Brian Manzella said:
I disagree strongly!

The Shoulder Turn Takeaway will promote—but NOT guarantee an Elbow Plane starting plane, and LOTS of those guys wind up as SINGLE SHIFTers.
Click to expand...

Good post.
 
tourdeep

tourdeep

New
shootin4par said:
hogan initiated with his hands, but you are saying he had a shouder turn take away?
Click to expand...

me thinks not...

stt.

Hogan "neutralized" the small muscles and allowed the shoulder to do the work on the takeaway. But, at left arm takeaway parallel , you can see in most picture segments the 90 degree position, cocking of the left wrist, whether it be a manipulation with hands, maybe a result of the "retricted" backswing due to his right knee kick in and hands naturally responding...
 
F

Flatleftwrist

New
tourdeep said:
me thinks not...

stt.

Hogan "neutralized" the small muscles and allowed the shoulder to do the work on the takeaway. But, at left arm takeaway parallel , you can see in most picture segments the 90 degree position, cocking of the left wrist, whether it be a manipulation with hands, maybe a result of the "retricted" backswing due to his right knee kick in and hands naturally responding...
Click to expand...


Then think again Tourdeep. Or better yet, read it again. Page 69, fourth paragraph, Five Lessons.
 
tourdeep

tourdeep

New
Flatleftwrist said:
Then think again Tourdeep. Or better yet, read it again. Page 69, fourth paragraph, Five Lessons.
Click to expand...

Hi flatleftwrist.

I found one of the many opinions on the Hogan takeaway. I place it on another thread for reference purposes...

http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthread.php?p=75941#post75941


Also, here are Hogan pictures to refernece. Brain did a fabulous job of putting it together and adding audio explanation...

http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5630
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
You guys....

Brian is right....

Not all STTs use the Elb. Plane in the downswing....

I'm pretty sure if you look at Daly, Els, Mickelson, Holmes you will see this.....some1 correct me if I'm wrong.

And I really really don't want to add any fuel to the fire at all....(believe me)....I only want to say this because it's what (I think) is the truth....

But.....I really cannot remember Lynn ever talking about a Shoulder Turn Takeaway without stressing that it is disruptive/off-plane....and he has certainly never (as I can remember) promoted it as a good path to take IMO....and I don't think he teaches it either.

But on the other hand, that's truly his perogative.

It's true that it's often off-Plane BTW (the TSP anyway).....but then again, not everyone would want to call it disruptive.

And please please please....before anyone reacts because I mentioned Lynn's name in a thread.....

Just look at what I wrote.....I honestly am trying to say this WITHOUT peeving anyone off....because I know everyone's touchy these days....

I think it's a fair observation....

And if anyone knows otherwise (about Lynn and a STT.....and Lynn you esp. chime in if you want to call me on this) just let me know.....I really am not worried about it.

...
 
Last edited:
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
Brian...

I know you teach a RFP some of the time....

How often do you teach a RFP?

To hookers (the golf kind...err....hookers of the ball....;)) mostly?
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

New
The FACT is this:

If you ONLY use your shoulders to take the club away, without ANY lifting of your right forearm, the club will go way underplane (lots of inward motion of clubhead, but NO backward motion).
 
F

Flatleftwrist

New
tongzilla said:
The FACT is this:

If you ONLY use your shoulders to take the club away, without ANY lifting of your right forearm, the club will go way underplane (lots of inward motion of clubhead, but NO backward motion).
Click to expand...

Tongzilla,

You're misleading. Please refresh your memory and turn to page 118, picture #8-4. The Takeaway occurs during Start Up and the initial Takeaway begins the Start Up. During the Takeaway, the hands move only a few inches.

Your response indicates that you think the SST (Shoulder Turn Takeaway) continues around your body without ever bending your right arm until you look like a pretzel. Not true. That would be the Disruptive Shoulder Turn Takeaway. During the SST, the hands still only move a few inches. One (of many) of the differences between a SST and RFT is what moves first. In SST, the Shoulders move the hands and in RFT the Right Forearm moves the hands. Both Takeaway procedures will produce a similar hand location at the start of the Backstoke path.

Keep your mind in your Hands. the SST and RFT should work equally well.
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

New
Flatleftwrist said:
Tongzilla,

You're misleading. Please refresh your memory and turn to page 118, picture #8-4. The Takeaway occurs during Start Up and the initial Takeaway begins the Start Up. During the Takeaway, the hands move only a few inches.

Your response indicates that you think the SST (Shoulder Turn Takeaway) continues around your body without ever bending your right arm until you look like a pretzel. Not true. That would be the Disruptive Shoulder Turn Takeaway. During the SST, the hands still only move a few inches. One (of many) of the differences between a SST and RFT is what moves first. In SST, the Shoulders move the hands and in RFT the Right Forearm moves the hands. Both Takeaway procedures will produce a similar hand location at the start of the Backstoke path.

Keep your mind in your Hands. the SST and RFT should work equally well.
Click to expand...

Flatleftwrist,

Ok, I was describing the Disruptive Shoulder Turn Takeaway...

The problem with the shoulder turn takeaway is that most people do not keep their mind in their hands, which they should do as you pointed out. That's why they go underplane.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Got milk?

Flatleftwrist said:
Brian, take a deep breath and relax. There isn't anything wrong with the STT unless it's disruptive; meaning too flat and too inside. The "East Coast Guys" understand the issues. The club will readily change to whatever plane you want during start-up. It's stationary at address and it doesn't have a mind of its own. The RFT is a good procedure to acquire a TSP. But because you stop reading when the pictures stop, you haven't learned the RFT. You've fooled anyone who believes you into thinking that the RFT is an over exaggerated club yanking procedure. It's not. It's actually very elegant and simple.
Click to expand...

You are so wrong is beyond belief.

Ever watch my MANZELLA VIDEO SHORT #4 - Right Forearm Takeaway vs. Shoulder Turn takeaway?
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
How can ANYONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND LOOK AT THE PICTURES OF HOGAN IN THE ABOVE LINK AND THINK FOR ONE MINUTE THAT HE IS USING THE RIGHT FOREARM TAKEAWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HIS LEFT SHOULDER HAS MOVED SO FAR IN THE FIRST TWO FRAMES IT IS A JOKE.

NEXT.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top