Weight shift

[Ringer]

Screening the WEB for some information on weight shift in a golf swing one typically finds:

-1-" Knowing how to release your stored-up energy (torque or coil), at the top of the backswing, is the least talked about subject in golf. "

-2- "The main reason for this idea of a weight shift in golf is because there is one in other sports. -- The reason a quarterback or tennis player's lower body shifts is because he took his arm back in the correct position, not the other way around."

-3- "Proper weight shift is necessary to hit the long ball. Learning a proper weight shift will add 10 yards or more to your shots."

-4- "In summary, what you have learnt from this information is that having a 'weight transfer' assists in positioning your body to generate large torques and thereby initiate the range of rotation that eventually results in fast club head speeds."

-5- "What happens here is that the right side is shifting to the left in the downswing to allow the right elbow to move far enough to the left, towards the ball, to be in a position to act as a pivot for the right forearm."

-6- "Weight transfer is a foundation to the dynamics found in your golf swing that produces additional power and enhances accuracy. "

-7- "A proper weight shift accomplishes two important things:

First, it supports and complements the rotation of the upper body and the swinging of the arms.

Next, it helps ensure that the club strikes the ball from the correct direction or path, as well as angle of approach."


It is quite interesting to see from above that weight shifting is associated with position, as a complimentary action, increasing the accuracy of ball striking and not just as a power move by itself.

We should not forget that weight shift is not simply a lateral movement to and fro along the target line. It is also caused by rotation of the arms and the body.

If one takes the view that a golf swing is to be treated as kinetic chain than one likely considers the various form of weight shift as a means to allow the heavier body segments participate fully in a golf swing.

However, the golf swing has a virtual center somewhere in the upper body. Shifting the body therefore not only shifts weight but also directly bears on the position of the swing center, and moving this center appropriately during the down swing can increase the clubhead speed.

Also some consider the position of the trail elbow prior to impact to be important and view the lateral motion of the body target wise as being necessary to allow the trail elbow to obtain its correct position to function optimally as the swing center just prior and through impact.

It would be quite interesting and very useful to hear from the real experts on this forum, who teach golf for a living, their views on weight shift in a golf swing.

I know I am entering this discussion late but I think I have something to mention in this.

Weight shift is ONLY about position if the weight is shifting at all.

A proper pivot REQUIRES weight shift because the mass of the body is in front of the axis point of the swing. Lets face it. Our arms, club, belly, chest... etc.. all weigh something. The swing center is IN the spine. That means the majority of our weight is in front of the center of the swing and thus MUST go back, and then go forward. If it does not, then the swing center is changed.

 

[Ty Webb]

Puttmad

Puttmad,

Please clarify, trying to follow your post and anti-clockwise and clockwise are confusing. Counter-clockwise and clockwise would be more conventional. Assuming the club is held in the right hand and parallel to the ground while point directly behind you with the right wrist bent please describe the back swing motion as clockwise or counter-clockwise and the down swing motion as clockwise or counter-clockwise.

This is interesting as I could see how a clockwise backswing rotation followed by a counter-clockwise downswing could add considerable float loading and potential wallop. I assume you mean just the opposite however?

Thanks.

 

[Brian Manzella]

I hate to say this but...

All this Mike Austin stuff makes me sleepy.

 

[shootin4par]

All this Mike Austin stuff makes me sleepy.

did you know he was a big endorser of the "twistaway"?

 

[mandrin]

I know I am entering this discussion late but I think I have something to mention in this.

Weight shift is ONLY about position if the weight is shifting at all.

A proper pivot REQUIRES weight shift because the mass of the body is in front of the axis point of the swing. Lets face it. Our arms, club, belly, chest... etc.. all weigh something. The swing center is IN the spine. That means the majority of our weight is in front of the center of the swing and thus MUST go back, and then go forward. If it does not, then the swing center is changed.

Ringer,

if I interpret your post correctly, you feel that weight shift is a byproduct of the pivot. Weight shift is multiple; there are various aspects such as being closely intertwined with the pivot. Below are several generic ideas re to weight shift. Would you like to make some comments as to what you think about them? I am sure interested to hear your views. Weight shift for many is a rather befuddled part of golf instruction.

-1- Power source for swing?

Weight shift involves motion of the body. It can move downwards (‘squatting’), sideways (backswing and downswing), and upwards (‘standing up’). Being at the core the associated kinetic energy can flow proximal to distal if allowed by proper deceleration.

-2- Stable platform?

There are many who consider the body simply as a stable platform to give stability to the swinging of the arms. Here we touch upon a long standing debate if either the arms or the body power the swing.

-3- Stable anchor point for trail elbow?

There is also the notion that the lateral motion of the body in the downswing is to simply get into the proper position with the trail hip as an anchor point for the trail elbow where the trail elbow is considered to be the fulcrum for the swing at the bottom.

-4- Counter balancing upper and lower body, com stable?

Another idea is that the upper and lower body in the downswing is simply doing a balancing act whereas the overall center of mass remains virtually in one spot. Someone starting the down swing with a vigorous lateral slide will likely move his upper body a bit backwards.

 

[Ringer]

Ringer,

if I interpret your post correctly, you feel that weight shift is a byproduct of the pivot. Weight shift is multiple; there are various aspects such as being closely intertwined with the pivot. Below are several generic ideas re to weight shift. Would you like to make some comments as to what you think about them? I am sure interested to hear your views. Weight shift for many is a rather befuddled part of golf instruction.

-1- Power source for swing?

Weight shift involves motion of the body. It can move downwards (‘squatting’), sideways (backswing and downswing), and upwards (‘standing up’). Being at the core the associated kinetic energy can flow proximal to distal if allowed by proper deceleration.

-2- Stable platform?

There are many who consider the body simply as a stable platform to give stability to the swinging of the arms. Here we touch upon a long standing debate if either the arms or the body power the swing.

-3- Stable anchor point for trail elbow?

There is also the notion that the lateral motion of the body in the downswing is to simply get into the proper position with the trail hip as an anchor point for the trail elbow where the trail elbow is considered to be the fulcrum for the swing at the bottom.

-4- Counter balancing upper and lower body, com stable?

Another idea is that the upper and lower body in the downswing is simply doing a balancing act whereas the overall center of mass remains virtually in one spot. Someone starting the down swing with a vigorous lateral slide will likely move his upper body a bit backwards.

Well first off.. I'm no engineer. But I am a keen observer. I have also found out that I have an incredible knack for observing something, then relating that in terms most people (including my girlfriends two 7 year old boys) can understand. So take my "non-educated but highly skilled" words for what they are.

-1- Power source for swing?

Weight shift involves motion of the body. It can move downwards (‘squatting’), sideways (backswing and downswing), and upwards (‘standing up’). Being at the core the associated kinetic energy can flow proximal to distal if allowed by proper deceleration.

It CAN be A source of power... but should not be considered THE source of power. The weight shift is actually a reflection of axis movement. So even saying that weight shift is the source of power is somewhat misleading. The only true source of power that "weight" has is in the momentum it carries. But when we think in terms of weight shift being a source of power, it's actually that the axis moves slightly back on the backswing and slightly forward on the forward swing. This shift of axis must be in time with the movement of the club (and arms). Just like when you move a pendulum by holding it in your fingers, you must make a slight movement backward and forward with your hand to keep the pendulum moving. This movement CAN go up and down... but if it does so ther MUST be a backward and forward motion that compliments it. Simply going up and down does much more harm than good. If I move my hand in a "U" shape, then I can get more motion out of the pendulum. But my ability to return the pendulum to the exact same place will be greatly diminished the more up and down I go.

-2- Stable platform?

There are many who consider the body simply as a stable platform to give stability to the swinging of the arms. Here we touch upon a long standing debate if either the arms or the body power the swing.

It's a very very very foolish debate too. Of COURSE the arms are what produce the swing. The body, pivot, or weight transfer (if you want) enhances the ability for the arms to swing. That's so easy to demonstrate it's not even funny. Heck, just imagine these two scenarios.

A man sitting in a chair, or on his knees... is able hit the ball quite far. His body can barely move at all... but his arms move a lot.

A man standing at the ball with his arms wrapped to his chest just in the right position to hold onto the club can only turn his body and hinge his wrists to produce the swing. He'll be lucky to hit the ball 10 yards let alone the distance he could hit sitting down.


-3- Stable anchor point for trail elbow?

There is also the notion that the lateral motion of the body in the downswing is to simply get into the proper position with the trail hip as an anchor point for the trail elbow where the trail elbow is considered to be the fulcrum for the swing at the bottom.

No. The lateral motion of the LOWER body is to allow the RIGHT SHOULDER to go downplane (toward the ball). The axis tilt determines where the right shoulder goes. Where the right shoulder goes determine where the hands go. It's a nice idea that the right hip and right elbow should somehow be connected... but try telling Furyk that. His hands are almost in his pocket and his right elbow is against his rib cage.

I think I did an excellent video on the roll spine tilt has on the right shoulder to anyone who wants to see it. If you do, then please send me an email. I don't want to break protocol on this board.

-4- Counter balancing upper and lower body, com stable?

Another idea is that the upper and lower body in the downswing is simply doing a balancing act whereas the overall center of mass remains virtually in one spot. Someone starting the down swing with a vigorous lateral slide will likely move his upper body a bit backwards.

Nope. Just like as with walking, your weight is constantly IN MOTION. It is not stable. If it is stable then I'd say you've got a severe problem of a reverse pivot. Again, that is because the mass of the body is IN FRONT of the swings axis.

A "latteral slide" will not move the upper body backwards.. it will likely INCREASE THE AXIS TILT away from the ball.... if the axis tilt wasn't set properly to begin with. That is why a proper axis tilt at setup is important.

 

[Brian Manzella]

A "lateral slide" will not move the upper body backwards.. it will likely INCREASE THE AXIS TILT away from the ball.... if the axis tilt wasn't set properly to begin with. That is why a proper axis tilt at setup is important.

Nope.

 

[Ringer]

Nope????

 

[Ringer]

They seem about equal to me... if just the lower body moves and the upper is intended to stay back, then the head must go down...

 

[puttmad]

....

Puttmad,

Please clarify, trying to follow your post and anti-clockwise and clockwise are confusing. Counter-clockwise and clockwise would be more conventional. Assuming the club is held in the right hand and parallel to the ground while point directly behind you with the right wrist bent please describe the back swing motion as clockwise or counter-clockwise and the down swing motion as clockwise or counter-clockwise.

This is interesting as I could see how a clockwise backswing rotation followed by a counter-clockwise downswing could add considerable float loading and potential wallop. I assume you mean just the opposite however?

Thanks.

Ty,

"Counter-clockwise" is stated as "anti-clockwise" over here mate.....

You are seeing the rotation as one forearm around the other. It is nothing to do with that at all...

Without a club, address an imaginary ball. Start your backswing and stop at the point where your hands have just passed your right leg.
Now take your left hand away altogether (the corkscrew motion is NOTHING to do with the left arm/hand).
You will now be standing, slightly crouched, as if you have a door in front of you. Imagine this door has a round doorknob on it and you are holding the doorknob with your right hand (right wrist will be cocked back)..
Now turn the doorknob anti-clockwise...This is the anti-clockwise movement I referred to in my post.
Note that the only obvious thing that moved was your right hand, which spun around as you turned the knob, and your right forearm rotated (hairy part now facing the sky). Both your right elbow and your right upper arm have not moved since you took your left hand/arm away.

Now do the same thing with both hands on a club. You will find this one simple rotational movement of your right forearm also fully cocks your left wrist. You will feel pressure in your right forearm muscles. Both your hands are now in the fully cocked position.
Now turn/pivot till you are at the top (the doorknob is still in your hand right?...).
At the top, as you start down, you simply turn the doorknob the other way briskly (clockwise). Keep your right hand "under" your left hand as long a possible in the downswing...
That is all there is to it...

 

[mandrin]

Well first off.. I'm no engineer. But I am a keen observer. I have also found out that I have an incredible knack for observing something, then relating that in terms most people (including my girlfriends two 7 year old boys) can understand. So take my "non-educated but highly skilled" words for what they are.

-1- Power source for swing?

Weight shift involves motion of the body. It can move downwards (‘squatting’), sideways (backswing and downswing), and upwards (‘standing up’). Being at the core the associated kinetic energy can flow proximal to distal if allowed by proper deceleration.

It CAN be A source of power... but should not be considered THE source of power. The weight shift is actually a reflection of axis movement. So even saying that weight shift is the source of power is somewhat misleading. The only true source of power that "weight" has is in the momentum it carries. But when we think in terms of weight shift being a source of power, it's actually that the axis moves slightly back on the backswing and slightly forward on the forward swing. This shift of axis must be in time with the movement of the club (and arms). Just like when you move a pendulum by holding it in your fingers, you must make a slight movement backward and forward with your hand to keep the pendulum moving. This movement CAN go up and down... but if it does so ther MUST be a backward and forward motion that compliments it. Simply going up and down does much more harm than good. If I move my hand in a "U" shape, then I can get more motion out of the pendulum. But my ability to return the pendulum to the exact same place will be greatly diminished the more up and down I go.

Ringer,

If I understand you correctly you see the motion of the body primarily through the perspective of a pendulum having a motion similar as illustrated above. You seem to perceive weight shift more like a byproduct of this pendulum motion. (MA’s compound pivot?) The question can then be asked why this pendulum motion? How do you see its function(s) in the golf swing? Balance, position, power, precision, etc.?

Your idea, re to downswing, is similar to old timer Joe Dante’s ideas. He considers the initial downswing motion primarily as a rotation of the golfer as a “frozen” unit around a horizontal axis, hence a lateral hip motion bringing down the shoulders, arms and club to the ball, whilst head staying back.

 

[puttmad]

....

Ringer,

If I understand you correctly you see the motion of the body primarily through the perspective of a pendulum having a motion similar as illustrated above. You seem to perceive weight shift more like a byproduct of this pendulum motion. (MA’s compound pivot?) The question can then be asked why this pendulum motion? How do you see its function(s) in the golf swing? Balance, position, power, precision, etc.?

Your idea, re to downswing, is similar to old timer Joe Dante’s ideas. He considers the initial downswing motion primarily as a rotation of the golfer as a “frozen” unit around a horizontal axis, hence a lateral hip motion bringing down the shoulders, arms and club to the ball, whilst head staying back.

Mandrin,

Using the pendulum hip motion sets up the conditions to provide the most efficient attack on the ball.
If you compare (as some do) the right arm action needed at the bottom of the swing and initial follow through to be similar to a boxer's uppercut punch, then which of your diagrams above do you think puts you in the best position to achieve this?...

 

[JeffM]

I think that Ben Hogan's idea of a full golf swing being analogous to a side-throw ball throwing action is the optimum model for understanding weight shift in a full golf swing.

See - http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/GolfPerfect-FofHarmthrow.jpg

Ben Hogan was attempting to demonstrate that the whole body is used to power the side-throw, ball-throwing action eg. when a third baseman catches a baseball and wants to throw the ball to first base. One doesn't just throw with the arms and keep the body steady and unmoving. The body is used to power the ball throw, and it must start in a specific sequence.

First of all, the right arm must be pulled back away from the torso. This involves a small amount of rearward weight shift of the body. Then, the ballthrower first inaugurates the side-throw, ball-throwing action with a lower body (hip) rotation towards the target. Then, secondly and near simultaneously, the ball thrower pulls the right arm towards the torso so that the right elbow leads the hands. The right shoulder is held back initially and only catches up with the hips in the latter part of the throwing motion, approximately at the time the ball is released from the hands. The sequence of body movements can be thought of as occurring in the following manner-: hips shift to the left and turn, which causes the lower body weight to be simultaneously transferred to the left side => right elbow moves down to the right hip area with right hand held back behind the right elbow => shoulders turn across the front of the body, while the hips continue turning, causing the right arm to be flung passively/semi-passively across the body (right arm becomes extended by centrifugal +/- right forearm muscle forces) => right elbow straightens and the ball is released.

A baseball pitcher who wants to throw a baseball at 100 mph needs to generate much greater body muscle power. He therefore loads up on the back side by taking a step back. He then takes a step forward when he throws the ball. The stepping back-and-forward is necessary because it provides a stable base of support (on the back and forward movement) for a large body motion in space. The baseball pitcher doesn't think of weight transfer to the back foot and then the forward foot as isolated/independent actions. He simply knows that he must use his body-power to the maximum degree of efficiency in order to generate the maximum ball speed.

A golfer cannot take a step back-and-forward when performing a full golf swing. He needs to keep his body movement within the confines of his feet in order to maintain balance. Therefore, to maximise body power he must first perform a good backswing pivot. I think a good backswing pivot is demonstrated in this Brady Riggs video - see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvOr5nNqYEw&mode=related&search= . Don't focus on Brady Riggs' message about "creating space". Simply watch his right hip and upper torso movement. Note that the right hip pivots around a slightly flexed right knee such that the right hip moves backwards and then slightly to the left. At the same time, the upper torso becomes tilted even more to the right. If the upper torso is tilted well to the right (good axis tilt to the right) then the golfer is perfectly poised to start the downswing with the maximum degree of body power. The amount of weight shifted back to the right side depends on the golfer's physical structure (because the upper torso is tilting to the right while the right pelvis [lower torso] gets pushed to the left). I don't think that it is important to quantitate the amount of weight transfer in the backswing, because the main focus should be on a good backswing pivot (like Brian has demonstrated in previous threads - a line drawn from the left foot to the head should slope convex-like to the right and there should be no concave-like break in the line due to reverse pivoting of the upper torso).

From the end-backswing position, one performs a Hogan-like hip shift-rotation move to start the downswing.

See - http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/Hogan-DScomposite.jpg

A good downswing move has axis tilt - lower body moving forwards and head kept back causing an axis tilt, as seen in the photo of Hogan. Hogan didn't think of transferring weight to the left side as an isolated/independent action. He merely thought of executing a good body-powered downswing action. Weight obviously gets transferred to the left side in a full golf swing, so that virtually all the golfer's weight is over the left leg at the end of the followthrough.

See - http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/AB-FollowthroughComplete-FO.jpg

Jeff.

 

[mandrin]

Mandrin,

Using the pendulum hip motion sets up the conditions to provide the most efficient attack on the ball.
If you compare (as some do) the right arm action needed at the bottom of the swing and initial follow through to be similar to a boxer's uppercut punch, then which of your diagrams above do you think puts you in the best position to achieve this?...

puttmad,

I personally don’t quite buy into the image of an upper cut. A much more useful image for me is to imagine vividly the hands to arrive at the ball before the clubhead. It helps getting optimum impact alignments, slightly down wards trajectory of clubhead and helps keeping the angles. An upper cut punch conveys too much an upward motion instead of a more desirable downward one.

 

[Ringer]

I never said ANYTHING about pendulum hips. The golf swing is not a pendulum, but we do want to look at a pendulum for similarities for concepts we want to have about our swing.

Like any SWING is is circular. It goes BACKWARD and FORWARD around a central pivot point. Now one specific characteristic of a pendulum that I was observing is that the axis point must be shifted back and forth in rythm with the weight being swung. So a slight movement of the axis point of our golf swing can be moved back in the backswing and forward in the forward swing as long as it is in rythm with the weight we are swinging (arms and club).

As for Mike Austin... I have NO IDEA what Mike Austin teaches and really don't care. I'm going to stick to what I know works and have been able to repeat. I am not searching for a new concept, only for new revelations regarding the one I have. I play in mini-tour events quite successfully. Why the heck would I want to go filling my head with more crap that doesn't even relate to anything I teach or understand? Maybe when I'm 70 and have no more events to play in for money.

As for Dante, I really don't know. I don't read much. Believe it or not, I don't read. I experience and experiment more than anything. I will beat a concept into the ground to either prove or disprove it. But if I can tell it isn't even relevant to me, I dismiss it without blinking.

What I do believe is that the shoulders will swivel around a spot in your spine. They rarely ever "tilt". That is to say, one shoulder is higher than the other. They turn basically 90 degrees to your spine. But if you tilt your spine then that 90 degree turn can be directed toward the ball.

As for weight shift.. it's a byproduct of turning around your spine. It's a very beneficial byproduct though. It's added momentum to the swing.

 

[golfbulldog]

As for weight shift.. it's a byproduct of turning . ..

not getting into argument about what one might turn around ( not in this thread) but...

I think this is what Mandrin believes... the rest of it is just teasing us!!

An efficient swing has weight shift by doing other things.... the other things are the reason that the swing is efficient... not the weight shift... but how is golf taught??

Rarely by teaching the "other things" but rather by teaching the feels that are the result of other things... and that is where the problems come from... cause and effect ( especially where many things can give a similar effect ... teach the effect and you then see people find many causes which were not intended by teacher!!)...

Maybe.. but that is what he is getting at i think.... so...

-1- Power source for swing?
No. rotation is the power source for most.Does iron bYron shift his weight ( does it have feet of some kind??) ? if he had left and right foot and bathroom scales under each i am sure the force exerted through each foot would vary during swing... as a slight tangent what would happen if Iron Byron were suspended in mid air??( new thread if you want to answer - more a Gedanken Experiment ...)

-2- Stable platform?
Efficient , centred rotation will always have a stable platform.

-3- Stable anchor point for trail elbow?
Whatever... ( said in voice of teenager who is bit "disaffected").... the right elbow does not need an anchor point!

-4- Counter balancing upper and lower body, com stable?
upper body and lower body ...slide and rotation on downswing... whatever.... the

Weight shift is just a convenient feel that a teacher can describe to a student. only useful if the teacher tells the student right way to shift weight ...

 

[johngolf33]

If my right foot tends to roll to the outside of my foot on the backswing it is impossible to push off the ground with the right foot to start the downswing. Experimenting with the video camera I discovered that if I take the club back more inside on the backswing my right foot stays flat and allows me to push on the ground to start the downswing. Am I on the right track as long as I do not take the club back under the elbow plane?

Sustain the Lag

 

[Brian Manzella]

If my right foot tends to roll to the outside of my foot on the backswing it is impossible to push off the ground with the right foot to start the downswing. Experimenting with the video camera I discovered that if I take the club back more inside on the backswing my right foot stays flat and allows me to push on the ground to start the downswing. Am I on the right track as long as I do not take the club back under the elbow plane?

Sustain the Lag

Perfect!

 

[puttmad]

....

If my right foot tends to roll to the outside of my foot on the backswing it is impossible to push off the ground with the right foot to start the downswing. Experimenting with the video camera I discovered that if I take the club back more inside on the backswing my right foot stays flat and allows me to push on the ground to start the downswing. Am I on the right track as long as I do not take the club back under the elbow plane?

Sustain the Lag

John,
For future ref. I found that following the advice "take the club away low, back along the target line" is what causes the roll onto the outside of the right foot...

Also, turning the right toe out a bit helps too...

 

[mandrin]

I think that Ben Hogan's idea of a full golf swing being analogous to a side-throw ball throwing action is the optimum model for understanding weight shift in a full golf swing.

See - http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/GolfPerfect-FofHarmthrow.jpg

Ben Hogan was attempting to demonstrate that the whole body is used to power the side-throw, ball-throwing action eg. when a third baseman catches a baseball and wants to throw the ball to first base. One doesn't just throw with the arms and keep the body steady and unmoving. The body is used to power the ball throw, and it must start in a specific sequence.

First of all, the right arm must be pulled back away from the torso. This involves a small amount of rearward weight shift of the body. Then, the ballthrower first inaugurates the side-throw, ball-throwing action with a lower body (hip) rotation towards the target. Then, secondly and near simultaneously, the ball thrower pulls the right arm towards the torso so that the right elbow leads the hands. The right shoulder is held back initially and only catches up with the hips in the latter part of the throwing motion, approximately at the time the ball is released from the hands. The sequence of body movements can be thought of as occurring in the following manner-: hips shift to the left and turn, which causes the lower body weight to be simultaneously transferred to the left side => right elbow moves down to the right hip area with right hand held back behind the right elbow => shoulders turn across the front of the body, while the hips continue turning, causing the right arm to be flung passively/semi-passively across the body (right arm becomes extended by centrifugal +/- right forearm muscle forces) => right elbow straightens and the ball is released.

A baseball pitcher who wants to throw a baseball at 100 mph needs to generate much greater body muscle power. He therefore loads up on the back side by taking a step back. He then takes a step forward when he throws the ball. The stepping back-and-forward is necessary because it provides a stable base of support (on the back and forward movement) for a large body motion in space. The baseball pitcher doesn't think of weight transfer to the back foot and then the forward foot as isolated/independent actions. He simply knows that he must use his body-power to the maximum degree of efficiency in order to generate the maximum ball speed.

A golfer cannot take a step back-and-forward when performing a full golf swing. He needs to keep his body movement within the confines of his feet in order to maintain balance. Therefore, to maximise body power he must first perform a good backswing pivot. I think a good backswing pivot is demonstrated in this Brady Riggs video - see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvOr5nNqYEw&mode=related&search= . Don't focus on Brady Riggs' message about "creating space". Simply watch his right hip and upper torso movement. Note that the right hip pivots around a slightly flexed right knee such that the right hip moves backwards and then slightly to the left. At the same time, the upper torso becomes tilted even more to the right. If the upper torso is tilted well to the right (good axis tilt to the right) then the golfer is perfectly poised to start the downswing with the maximum degree of body power. The amount of weight shifted back to the right side depends on the golfer's physical structure (because the upper torso is tilting to the right while the right pelvis [lower torso] gets pushed to the left). I don't think that it is important to quantitate the amount of weight transfer in the backswing, because the main focus should be on a good backswing pivot (like Brian has demonstrated in previous threads - a line drawn from the left foot to the head should slope convex-like to the right and there should be no concave-like break in the line due to reverse pivoting of the upper torso).

From the end-backswing position, one performs a Hogan-like hip shift-rotation move to start the downswing.

See - http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/Hogan-DScomposite.jpg

A good downswing move has axis tilt - lower body moving forwards and head kept back causing an axis tilt, as seen in the photo of Hogan. Hogan didn't think of transferring weight to the left side as an isolated/independent action. He merely thought of executing a good body-powered downswing action. Weight obviously gets transferred to the left side in a full golf swing, so that virtually all the golfer's weight is over the left leg at the end of the followthrough.

See - http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/AB-FollowthroughComplete-FO.jpg

Jeff.

JeffMan,

I see some essential points in your post:

- In baseball a ball thrower generates power using large lateral body motions
- In golf there is little leeway laterally and one has to use instead rotational motion.
- Emphasis on proper sequencing in both sports.

These ideas clearly fit with those who believe that the body is powering the swing and that an appropriate sequence is required to fully exploit this source of power. In such a kinetic chain power from the inner core flows to the periphery primarily through the work done by inertial type joint forces. For instance the joint forces acting in the wrist joints are the principle agent for flow of power to the clubhead.

Ben Hogan's idea of a full golf swing being analogous to a side-throw ball throwing action and an optimum model for understanding weight shift in a full golf swing fits the school of thinking where the power is thought to be a mainly a matter of trail side action. However at one time it was thought to be exclusively a lead side affair like, for example Prof Jorgensen, and it was advised to forget the trail side almost as being a nuisance.

PS., I quite appreciate your reference to Brady Riggs video. Even if in a rather different way he clearly introduces the notion of space in the back swing as an important element. I referred to space as the basic reason for the back swing itself to be able to generate kinetic energy. Riggs sees it as to create space for the downswing.