Michael Finney
New
of course it's not about people, it's about correct information that will help people play better golf...but still, good job
What Kind of Release is this? & Can an effective swing include no deceleration?
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
Art Maffei: "The pelvis decelerates because of everything above it with the high total moment of inertia, and respective high torques push against the counterclockwise rotating pelvis. The degree of deceleration to lower pelvis angular velocities, still leave the pelvis rotating with a positive but reduced angular velocity, typically to about half at impact."
Half.
Half.
grahler
New
I can really relate the decel of Jamie's hips to my tennis serve.
20 years ago I could serve at pro level speed/spin.
In that motion I could really feel beginning from my feet the energy moving up through to the racket. Felt like my whole body was a massive whip. Never understood it but I knew the feel and tension at any one part broke it. It FELT powerful with the wrong tension but the ball didn't have that same pop.
Looking back back its like the energy flowed like water through me.
I don't have that feel in golf but I am always slowly inching closer.
A chain doesn't have anything to do with a conscious decel effort as I see it. It simply occurs in a coordinated athletic action.
Some good old school golfers one in particular wrote about it.
I think if you're feeling that there's individual pieces of your body doing things at different times like little mini moves you simply have not yet achieved the proper synergy of motion for that move.
I may not be a good golfer but in tennis I was dialed in.
The feel is your body flowing the energy moving through it like water.
I think trying to say the chain action doesn't happen because you don't want to decelerate the pieces is really gross misunderstanding of the chain.
20 years ago I could serve at pro level speed/spin.
In that motion I could really feel beginning from my feet the energy moving up through to the racket. Felt like my whole body was a massive whip. Never understood it but I knew the feel and tension at any one part broke it. It FELT powerful with the wrong tension but the ball didn't have that same pop.
Looking back back its like the energy flowed like water through me.
I don't have that feel in golf but I am always slowly inching closer.
A chain doesn't have anything to do with a conscious decel effort as I see it. It simply occurs in a coordinated athletic action.
Some good old school golfers one in particular wrote about it.
I think if you're feeling that there's individual pieces of your body doing things at different times like little mini moves you simply have not yet achieved the proper synergy of motion for that move.
I may not be a good golfer but in tennis I was dialed in.
The feel is your body flowing the energy moving through it like water.
I think trying to say the chain action doesn't happen because you don't want to decelerate the pieces is really gross misunderstanding of the chain.
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
Rory McIllroy's Kinematic Sequence:
Rory McIllroy's Kinematic Sequence:
If I'm reading the chart correctly, Rory's hips accelerate on the downswing, then slow down, then actually reverse after impact and then accelerate again. This correlates with the slo-mo YouTube video of McIlroy that I posted earlier in this thread.
Old Tom
Michael Finney
New
drewyallop
New
Rory McIllroy's Kinematic Sequence:
Obviously not one of the "elite".
Matt Bryda
New
The almost leveling off point of the pelvis after the last spaghetti junction, pre impact
is an interesting thing to me.
is an interesting thing to me.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
That's where he starts to apply force across the shaft.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
You know what that graph reminds me of?
School......and that's when I tune out. I'm glad there's other ways to understand this.
School......and that's when I tune out. I'm glad there's other ways to understand this.
tongzilla
New
Can you state more precisely when this is...like when the shaft is at its last parallel before impact? I remember MJ came up with numbers that said elite players have zero force across the shaft at impact.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Brian is referring to a spot well before impact
It appears pelvic rotation deceleration is similar amongst amateurs and pros only that everything happens faster with the pros.Also it appears that this deceleration can vary from player to player,some decelerate sooner and others later.Rory decelerates sooner than Sadlowski.
Has anyone asked the pros whether or not they purposely decelerate their hips before impact for more power or are they trying to accelerate everything and the deceleration just happens?This is not a rhetorical question.I would really like to know.This could be another case of feel vs real.
Has anyone asked the pros whether or not they purposely decelerate their hips before impact for more power or are they trying to accelerate everything and the deceleration just happens?This is not a rhetorical question.I would really like to know.This could be another case of feel vs real.
lia41985
New member
And the human equivalents: the hammer thrower and the...golfer
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Let's debate the WHY on some other threads....
This thread has LONG BEEN ABOUT the what.
And the what is THERE IS DECELERATION IN THE ROTATIONAL VELOCITY OF ALL POWERFUL GOLF SWINGS.
This thread has LONG BEEN ABOUT the what.
And the what is THERE IS DECELERATION IN THE ROTATIONAL VELOCITY OF ALL POWERFUL GOLF SWINGS.
Michael Finney
New
Art Maffei hits a long drive to center field - and it's outta here....
Brian Manzella
Administrator
A quote from Art Maffei:
...The primary discussion HERE seems to me based on whether or not the pelvis decelerates through impact, and to my scientific systems understanding, the answer is YES, it has to if the torso and elements above it are to achieve higher angular velocities, ESPECIALLY THE TORSO.
The reason is simply that to achieve a higher torso angular velocity, torque has to be added ABOVE the pelvis, thereby pushing back, and slowing it down. If as your comments infer, a golfer with more pelvic strength swings, they COULD over-power the torso’s ability to accelerate, get ‘stuck’ to the pelvis, but because of the additional inertia and limited range of motion and torque profile of the pelvis, would result in a lower torso angular velocity, therefore lower club head speed.
Worst of all however, and the scientific place I have decided to emphasize as it has a very high ‘resource to payoff ratio’, is the adverse impact to the golfers lower body dynamic balance and stability (as measured with high quality force plates). Efforts to increase and retain high pelvic angular velocities would exacerbate the required lower bodies dynamic stability resulting in undesirable ‘reflex’ actions, further reducing the quality and club head velocity of the swing.
...understand that for All GOLFERS BEST/OPTIMUM SWINGS, PELVIC DECELERATION IS INEVITABLE.
...The primary discussion HERE seems to me based on whether or not the pelvis decelerates through impact, and to my scientific systems understanding, the answer is YES, it has to if the torso and elements above it are to achieve higher angular velocities, ESPECIALLY THE TORSO.
The reason is simply that to achieve a higher torso angular velocity, torque has to be added ABOVE the pelvis, thereby pushing back, and slowing it down. If as your comments infer, a golfer with more pelvic strength swings, they COULD over-power the torso’s ability to accelerate, get ‘stuck’ to the pelvis, but because of the additional inertia and limited range of motion and torque profile of the pelvis, would result in a lower torso angular velocity, therefore lower club head speed.
Worst of all however, and the scientific place I have decided to emphasize as it has a very high ‘resource to payoff ratio’, is the adverse impact to the golfers lower body dynamic balance and stability (as measured with high quality force plates). Efforts to increase and retain high pelvic angular velocities would exacerbate the required lower bodies dynamic stability resulting in undesirable ‘reflex’ actions, further reducing the quality and club head velocity of the swing.
...understand that for All GOLFERS BEST/OPTIMUM SWINGS, PELVIC DECELERATION IS INEVITABLE.
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