What Kind of Release is this? & Can an effective swing include no deceleration?
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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Michael Finney
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One of the most important paragraphs of a recent art maffei post:
What is CRUCIAL for you and others commenting on the worth of the data being presented is to understand that only position and time are sensed, and the desired products of angular velocity, and angular acceleration are calculated, and as I hope you realize are the first and second derivatives of the sensed data respectively. From video, or even the avatar presentation of these systems, position (changes) are easy to see, but increasing or decreasing velocity is harder, and IMO, increasing or decreasing acceleration is impossible.
What is CRUCIAL for you and others commenting on the worth of the data being presented is to understand that only position and time are sensed, and the desired products of angular velocity, and angular acceleration are calculated, and as I hope you realize are the first and second derivatives of the sensed data respectively. From video, or even the avatar presentation of these systems, position (changes) are easy to see, but increasing or decreasing velocity is harder, and IMO, increasing or decreasing acceleration is impossible.
Brian,
Thanks for the video and photo-shop effort. If you still want to have a little more fun, and to almost eliminate the parallax uncertainty and concern, try to get an over-head shot from a high frame-rate system and repeat the process.
The comparison of the spaces between 'clicks' quite reliably will represent the angular velocity changes for equal increments of time, and are true representations of the angular acceleration changes increasing or decreasing.
As for the degree of adherence to the well documented expectation of the proximal to distal, and kinematic sequence of the major body elements always following a standardized or even identical order and shape, I anxiously await discussing some scientific efforts recognizing the impact of major differences in the torques and moments of inertia of the pelvis/legs, torso, shoulder girdles, arms and hands/club. Since these acceleration determining characteristics differ dramatically from the usual 'bull-whip' analogy regarding adding angular velocity, they also differ dramatically in their torque to inertia relationships going proximal to distal.
So, IMO, an 'optimum' swing/sequence for each individual golfer to maximize club head velocity while retaining acceptable accuracy will depend on the where and how much each 'torque generator' (pelvis, torso etc.) contributes to the overall swing.
Looking forward to getting together on the west coast sometime soon to expand on this approach.
Sincerely,
art
mgranato
New
So I guess it's down to Poulter to carry the torch. That's a lot of weight for a man with 2 PGA Tour wins and no majors. Losing an exhibition golfer like JS had to be painful. I guess they still have T-Dub, albeit a version that only exists on film (ironically).
To IJP, play HARD! Play like you've never shown you can play before. Play like the reps of 2 non golfers golfing lives depend on it. Play with fast accelerating hips, and with clear face-on and down-the-line views. But, for the love of God and all that is holy, please please please don't get on any 3D system any time soon. While it may benefit your career, it would be disastrous for online-off-couse golf instruction. And start taking this stuff serious... you're not just playing for you, your family, sponsors, or country anymore.
To IJP, play HARD! Play like you've never shown you can play before. Play like the reps of 2 non golfers golfing lives depend on it. Play with fast accelerating hips, and with clear face-on and down-the-line views. But, for the love of God and all that is holy, please please please don't get on any 3D system any time soon. While it may benefit your career, it would be disastrous for online-off-couse golf instruction. And start taking this stuff serious... you're not just playing for you, your family, sponsors, or country anymore.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
The funniest thing ever is Mr. "there is a small sub-set of golfers" thinks that that video was a serious attempt to determine Jamie's hip movement and velocity. Even Baldy knows it was a tongue-in-cheek look at the futility of line drawing. If he doesn't, there is no hope for him at the asylum.
I also couldn't believe that folks can't figure why Sadlowski's "shoulders" turn 163 degree in the Motion Reality system (makers of the MAT-T) and only 103 on the Golftec system.
Just maker placement. Every decent player's left shoulder can go further "around" then their mid-back. Dustin Johnson is a great example of doing it to the extreme like Jamie.
You see, we learn from all the systems.
It's fun.
I also couldn't believe that folks can't figure why Sadlowski's "shoulders" turn 163 degree in the Motion Reality system (makers of the MAT-T) and only 103 on the Golftec system.
Just maker placement. Every decent player's left shoulder can go further "around" then their mid-back. Dustin Johnson is a great example of doing it to the extreme like Jamie.
You see, we learn from all the systems.
It's fun.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
The Motion Reality system capture of Sadlowki's body on the downswing....
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Michael Finney
New
Now he's back posting tapio's stuff....a man he ridiculed and banned....this guy needs a therapist..
lia41985
New member
It wasn't because of the graphs, however. That's fine. People can disagree about other stuff and agree on other stuff--that's a mature course of action, actually. Resorting to Tapio's data is probably one of the further things down on the list of disingenuous things he has done and may not be disingenuous at all.
Tapio's got a competing modality. However, it's beyond my expertise and probably everyone on this forum's expertise how to assess the effectiveness/accuracy/value of his system. Part of our learning will be reconciling these different modalities and data in our search for, as Art calls it, "golf truth."
Tapio's got a competing modality. However, it's beyond my expertise and probably everyone on this forum's expertise how to assess the effectiveness/accuracy/value of his system. Part of our learning will be reconciling these different modalities and data in our search for, as Art calls it, "golf truth."
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
Vague references to the rest of internet land are ok....but all this other stuff is not.
Back on point....
Can you make a tour caliber, or long drive caliber swing without any deceleration in the pelvis?
I am standing firm on—no way!
Back on point....
Can you make a tour caliber, or long drive caliber swing without any deceleration in the pelvis?
I am standing firm on—no way!
McIlroy's Pelvis
Deceleration of hips without the numbers:
Rory McIlroy - Super Slow Motion - YouTube
OldTom
Deceleration of hips without the numbers:
Rory McIlroy - Super Slow Motion - YouTube
OldTom
mgranato
New
If someone answers "yes", I'd like to see one concrete example.
mgranato
New
What are your thoughts on teaching them to accelerate? Or that they should accelerate?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
drewyallop
New
Probably the only good reason to wear a white belt ...essential for the alchemical explanation of golf mechanics!!!
drewyallop
New
Conservation of angular momentum.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Technically, no momentum is conserved in the golf swing.
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