What Kind of Release is this? & Can an effective swing include no deceleration?

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lia41985

lia41985

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Brian Manzella said:
YOU HAVE NO CHANCE WITHOUT 3D CAPTURE OR THE EQUIVALENT.
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I live in 4-D and no, the boy Tapioca Pudding ain't a roommate.

Every so often, Dariusz sneaks in and kicks back a little of the, you know.

It's fun. You're there. So is Kevin. So is DC.

Cool place.

Lindsey too. He's a little dirty though. Pair him up with Billy McKinney and watch out.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
James' data is all PGA Tour from TPI/AMM.

I will be posting up several well-known PGA Tour players Kinematics in the next couple of days.
 
O

OLIVER1

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lia41985 said:
I live in 4-D and no, the boy Tapioca Pudding ain't a roommate.

Every so often, Dariusz sneaks in and kicks back a little of the, you know.

It's fun. You're there. So is Kevin. So is DC.

Cool place.

Lindsey too. He's a little dirty though. Pair him up with Billy McKinney and watch out.
Click to expand...

Can the British lads on the forum get a translation? I love your posts, but, just lately, every time you fire up an offering I feel I should sign up for Elementary Lia41985 at the Berlitz School
 
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mgranato

mgranato

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OLIVER1 said:
Can the British lads on the forum get a translation? I love your posts, but, just lately, every time you fire up an offering I feel I should sign up for Elementary Lia41985 at the Berlitz School
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If I can't trace it back to Guy Richie, I'm often left scratching me head as well. :)
 
lia41985

lia41985

New member
Brian Manzella said:
James' data is all PGA Tour from TPI/AMM.

I will be posting up several well-known PGA Tour players Kinematics in the next couple of days.
Click to expand...
Well then let's get Brian's book club or lia's lit review going beforehand!
41YICXeK8uL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I'm barely through chapter 1. Pretty complex. Harder than just watching a YouTube video. That's for damn sure.
 
lia41985

lia41985

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You know what's positively one of the funniest things ever?

Some who think they "know" would scoff at my Luke Donald avatar picture.

F----N' FLIPPER!

Look at this bum doing the same:

111201_ben_hogan_640.jpg


Oh...

That's f-----n' Hogan? Man could still hit it then.

Just like Luke can now.

If they didn't they'd shank the pants off the ball. Don't you get it?
 
dschultz6072

dschultz6072

New
Nobody cares about Hogan pics after his fearsome foursome had turned to dust and his ding-aling shriveled up. It's all about POWER GOLF! And the RIGHT SIDE LATERAL BEND WITH DUAL ER/IR AB/AD.
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
lia41985 said:
You know what's positively one of the funniest things ever?

Some who think they "know" would scoff at my Luke Donald avatar picture.

F----N' FLIPPER!

Look at this bum doing the same:

111201_ben_hogan_640.jpg


Oh...

That's f-----n' Hogan? Man could still hit it then.

Just like Luke can now.

If they didn't they'd shank the pants off the ball. Don't you get it?
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It's NOT the same. Donald is more of a crossover release guy while old Hogan was close to a slap-hinge guy (he stopped to be a pure push release guy after secret, which I found as very interesting in the context he got rid of intentional handle dragging he used to have and became a phenomenal ballstriker at once). The difference is RoC.
It is very visible after separation -- that's why I said earlier it is useless to ask what kind of release it is while ending showing on contact.

Cheers
 
Michael Finney

Michael Finney

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Oh, dear dad, can you see me now
I am myself, like you somehow
I'll ride the wave where it takes me
I'll hold the pain...Release me...
Ohh...ohh...ohh...ohh...

 
Michael Finney

Michael Finney

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Anderson:

Authors have argued over the optimal pattern of timing for joint angular velocities in a
linked system. Koniar (1973) has argued for what he called the “principal of
superposition of angular speeds in joints”. In order to achieve maximum performance for
a given action, Koniar said that all segments should reach a maximum angular velocity at
precisely the same moment. He measured 20 athletes with electro-goniometers and found
that subjects jumped highest when segmental angular velocities peaked simultaneously.
No mention was made as to the sampling frequency or smoothing methods used in this
investigation.

Koniar wasn’t the only author to describe this “principle” of simultaneous
segmental speed peaks. Gowitzke and Millner (1988) stated that “in theory, each joint
action should impart maximal linear velocity at the instant of release”. These authors
noted that this phenomenon wasn’t seen in hitting or throwing sports. They speculated
that it would be possible to estimate the degree of coordination for a given performance
by comparing peak end point velocity with a theoretical end velocity if all segments were
to peak at the same time.

Joris et al (1985) described a simultaneous maximality of body segment angular
velocities as “the Hocmuth Optimization Principal”. In a study of over hand throwing in
handball, those authors set out to determine if simultaneous peaking of segment angular
velocities actually improved performance. They found that this pattern could only be
possible in a purely theoretical, kinematic sense; that is, if the segments contained no
mass. Of course, this constraint does not hold true for real human movement. The authors
found that distal segments seemed to go through periods of highest acceleration when the
9 preceding segments underwent a deceleration. Joris et al stated that Newton’s third law
could likely explain the deceleration of proximal segments. Those authors reasoned that
“for every action on a more distal segment …” (i.e. joint torque) “there is an equal but
opposite reaction on the more proximal segment.” In their experiment, they found that
optimal performance was found when segmental angular velocities peaked in a proximal
to distal (P-D) fashion.
 
C

cwdlaw223

New
Dariusz J. said:
It's NOT the same. Donald is more of a crossover release guy while old Hogan was close to a slap-hinge guy (he stopped to be a pure push release guy after secret, which I found as very interesting in the context he got rid of intentional handle dragging he used to have and became a phenomenal ballstriker at once). The difference is RoC.
It is very visible after separation -- that's why I said earlier it is useless to ask what kind of release it is while ending showing on contact.

Cheers
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Where's the evidence that the ROC for one person works for another? What might be slow for Hogan is fast for Dustin Johnson. Unfortunatley, the ROC guys are just guessing that ROC is a universal law like impact physics.
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
cwdlaw223 said:
Where's the evidence that the ROC for one person works for another? What might be slow for Hogan is fast for Dustin Johnson. Unfortunatley, the ROC guys are just guessing that ROC is a universal law like impact physics.
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I do not know if I understand your question well...but RoC is an objective measurable value that depends on human kinetics and eventually some intentional actions taken. This is not an individual complex phenomenon, such as e.g. tempo, where we can talk what is slow or fast depending on subjective worlds. It is not an universal law either, although it is easy to predict/observe what kind of kinetics is prone to bigger or smaller RoC.

Cheers
 
C

cwdlaw223

New
Dariusz J. said:
I do not know if I understand your question well...but RoC is an objective measurable value that depends on human kinetics and eventually some intentional actions taken. This is not an individual complex phenomenon, such as e.g. tempo, where we can talk what is slow or fast depending on subjective worlds. It is not an universal law either, although it is easy to predict/observe what kind of kinetics is prone to bigger or smaller RoC.

Cheers
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How about you give me the ROCs for a couple touring pros? No adjectives. What is big? What is small? There has to be some measurable difference between the two. Unless you have numbers, it's just a guess. 1.0001 is bigger than 1.0. Not sure if that makes any difference.
 
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Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
cwdlaw223 said:
How about you give me the ROCs for a couple touring pros? No adjectives.
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Where am I supposed to take these data from ??? What I can do is just to speculate with a huge dose of probability while comparing swing motions.
I even do not know if such researches have ever been run -- and certainly they should have been not only once. It would lighten a few brains, I am sure.

Cheers
 
Virtuoso

Virtuoso

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Dariusz J. said:
It is not an universal law either, although it is easy to predict/observe what kind of kinetics is prone to bigger or smaller RoC.

Cheers
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You sound quite certain. Just the inertia of the club itself acting back on the golfer throughout the different phases of the transition and downswing make this far from an easily decoded event based on simple observations. You really have to be able to differentiate the forces acting on the club and the forces acting on the hands and extract the net forces, which then could be correlated with the actual movement and behavior of the club.

And then the clubhead runs into the ball and they apply huge forces to each other, with the net resulting forces applying to the ball flight. At impact, the clubhead is essentially decoupled from the golfer's hands because forces applied by the ball have to be translated up through the shaft, and through the grip, and through the tissues of the hands. There is no direct link in which the hands can resist or manipulate against the impact forces instantaneously. Just after impact, the left wrist gets treated like a rag doll.

This whole ROC debate has become one big Muppet show.
 
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Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
Virtuoso said:
You sound quite certain. Just the inertia of the club itself acting back on the golfer throughout the different phases of the transition and downswing make this far from an easily decoded event based on simple observations. You really have to be able to differentiate the forces acting on the club and the forces acting on the hands and extract the net forces, which then could be correlated with the actual movement and behavior of the club. And then the clubhead runs into the ball and they apply huge forces to each other, with the net resulting forces apllying to the ball flight. At impact, the clubhead is essentially decoupled from the golfer's hands because forces applied by the ball have to be translated up through the shaft, and through the grip, and through the tissues of the hands. There is no direct link in which the hands can resist or manipulate against the impact forces instantaneously. Just after impact, the left wrist gets treated like a rag doll.

This whole ROC debate has become one big Muppet show.
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Yes, because I am certain.

No need to go soo deep to analyze microwrold torques and bends; also collision repercussions should be taken out of researches. RoC should be measured as an angle change to the path arc in a given distance. With today's technique, it should be a piece of cake.
Muppet show ? Perhaps with a participation of ignorant debaters.

Cheers
 
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