Who are you rooting for?

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Dariusz J.

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Bad will?? It's called a sense of humor D. No bad feelings at all.

No probs. We have a different sense of humour, obviously.

Do you really think Hogan hit the ball good all the time?

Of course not. He just hit it good more often than others.

And Kevin is right, you need to get out and see these long hitters up close.
They hit it really good bro. They're not as wild as you make them out to be.

I can suspect they do frequently. What I cannot unsderstand, however, is how big are their worse misses.

Everybody misses fairways all the time. Ben Hogan did too!

Yes, but not so often and not so bad. And with much less forgiving equipment and ball.

Cheers
 
No probs. We have a different sense of humour, obviously.

Yours seems to be often absent. How can you get all bent out of shape over me stating a fact about
Furyk hitting a horrible shot WAY off line to blow a major when you say his problem is his putting?
When you say "wrongheaded" (;)) comments like that, you are fair game to be set straight with
some factual reality.

Of course not. He just hit it good more often than others.

Not all the time he didn't. He hit wayward shots too. Some considerably off line. He had bad misses too.

I can suspect they do frequently. What I cannot unsderstand, however, is how big are their worse misses.

Only one way to find out...go watch them play. As I said, every player has bad misses. If players are winning
tournaments those misses aren't happening very often, at least not their worst ones. Your not giving credit
where credit is due IMO.

Yes, but not so often and not so bad. And with much less forgiving equipment and ball.

Come on D, that's a lame argument. Players today could hit persimmon heads and balata balls well
if it was the only equipment available. No reason to think otherwise.

Do you think Hogan hit persimmon head drivers and balata balls better than Nicklaus?? I would take
Nicklaus in his prime over Hogan in his prime off the tee. I must be off my rocker...eh D? :D

Stay cool D. If you get over to the States I'll take you to a Tour event and you can try and convince me
that these players today are crappy ball strikers. Keep smilin' and sticking it to Mann.
 

Dariusz J.

New member
Yours seems to be often absent. How can you get all bent out of shape over me stating a fact about
Furyk hitting a horrible shot WAY off line to blow a major when you say his problem is his putting?
When you say "wrongheaded" (;)) comments like that, you are fair game to be set straight with
some factual reality.

Actually, you bend the reality. I said he was not putting well yesterday and that was why he lost to Watson. You started with a totally off-line comment about his shot on his way to US Open title without any reason.
Maybe it is true that my sense of humour is often absent. Won't deny it.


Only one way to find out...go watch them play. As I said, every player has bad misses. If players are winning
tournaments those misses aren't happening very often, at least not their worst ones. Your not giving credit
where credit is due IMO.

I think I am. I expect from professionals who do nothing but hit balls better things. I know I will make you laugh, but I personally have NEVER had (since when I started to play decent golf) such bad misses as Woods often has, or McIllroy and Watson had at the Masters.


o you think Hogan hit persimmon head drivers and balata balls better than Nicklaus?? I would take
Nicklaus in his prime over Hogan in his prime off the tee. I must be off my rocker...eh D? :D

Yes, I do think so. You are free to think otherwise, I will not be trying to convince you.

Keep smilin' and sticking it to Mann.

Could you explain what you wanted to say by this ? I am clueless but intrigued.

Cheers
 
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Actually, you bend the reality. I said he was not putting well yesterday and that was why he lost to Watson.

Thats not what I read. You wrote "Furyk should learn how to putt better. He loses matches on the greens."

You started with a totally off-line comment about his shot on his way to US Open title without any reason.

Nothing off-line about it D. It was absolutely a factual statement.

I personally have NEVER had (since when I started to play decent golf) such bad misses as Woods often has, or McIllroy and Watson had at the Masters.

That's because you've never played a major championship course setup nor experienced major championship pressure.
If you did, you would hit really poor golf shots and not be able to break 90. Probably not even break 100. It's harder
than you think D.

Could you explain what you wanted to say by this ? I am clueless but intrigued.

You shouldn't be, it's incredibly obvious.
 

Dariusz J.

New member
Thats not what I read. You wrote "Furyk should learn how to putt better. He loses matches on the greens."
Nothing off-line about it D. It was absolutely a factual statement.

I checked it back and I must admit I was wrong and you're right. I wrote it the way you could understand what you did. Apologies.


That's because you've never played a major championship course setup nor experienced major championship pressure.
If you did, you would hit really poor golf shots and not be able to break 90. Probably not even break 100. It's harder
than you think D.

That's true, I've never played such a course. However, I don't see the correlation between making wild shots and what course we play.
I am not offended by saying that I couldn't break 100. It is very probable, especially taking into account my putting that sucks even on easy greens.
But I doubt I would be so far deep in forests, really.


You shouldn't be, it's incredibly obvious.

Those are words that are offensive and I did not deserve them. Don't make me be angry at you again or you will hear some things that you do not want to.

Cheers
 
dariusz i would like your thoughts on this debacle:

pressure got to him or does he normally make god awful swings a la a 20 handicap with a bad hip?
 

Dariusz J.

New member
dariusz i would like your thoughts on this debacle:

pressure got to him or does he normally make god awful swings a la a 20 handicap with a bad hip?

Why are you asking me ? He should be asked that question. I can only guess that his swing motion's mechanics was based on conscious actions, thus, a very timing-dependent and easy to be put out of order. Of course, pressure can be the main reason here, BUT, if his motion is much more subconscious-friendly, he probably would not have played that bad his last round.

Just to add, that I did not eat all brains and it is easy to write such things, I can easily understand that real players of tour calibers simply have to have elements that are conscious such as e.g. clubface control while shaping shots of choice. I, on my level, prefer to have consistency with only one pattern which is relatively easy to achieve in a setup-dependent motion. I am aware that I can lose a shot here or there because e.g. I won't be able to play a deliberate hook or slice or low or high shot -- but also I am perfectly aware I can lose much more when I try to do it.

Cheers
 

Dariusz J.

New member
So, Lifter, returning to the original topic, we both chose well except Furyk/Watson. Not bad, huh ? :p

I am personally very happy that the two best players, Kuchar and Mahan, have many elements in their swings that I like very much. Maybe not so much as Furyk's downswing, but anyhow. I wonder BTW if someone run statictics of Kuchar's FIR & GIR. The guy is very consistent.

Cheers
 
So, Lifter, returning to the original topic, we both chose well except Furyk/Watson. Not bad, huh ? :p

I am personally very happy that the two best players, Kuchar and Mahan, have many elements in their swings that I like very much. Maybe not so much as Furyk's downswing, but anyhow. I wonder BTW if someone run statictics of Kuchar's FIR & GIR. The guy is very consistent.

Cheers

Kuchar is such a class act. The "smiling assassin"! I was definitely pulling for him in the final.

I give Mahan a lot of credit for hanging in there, though. Those were cold, difficult conditions! He's made a lot of progress with his pitching and putting.

While Kuchar's technique is extremely effective, I think Mahan might have the most "Hoganesque" swing on the planet right now.
 

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
Here are Kuchar's basic stats:

Driving Distance 276.5 167th
Driving Accuracy Percentage 54.84% 142nd Fwys Hit - 85 Poss. Fwys - 155
Greens in Reg Percentage 71.21% 73rd Greens Hit - 141 # Holes - 198
Strokes Gained - Putting 1.022 13th
Eagles (Holes per) 49.5 5th
Birdie Average 4.82 15th
Scoring Average 69.747 10th
Sand Save Percentage 71.43% 9th
Total Driving 309 181st
All-Around Ranking 431 23rd
 

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
Top 10 Driving Accuracy

Furyk, Jim 10 75.68 84 111
Toms, D 9 72.73 80 110
Maggert, Je 19 72.24 190 263
Clark, Tim 20 71.19 168 236
Park, Jin 12 71.08 118 166
Duke, Ken 15 69.71 145 208
Lee, Ri 15 69.08 143 207
Pride, Dic 16 68.92 153 222
Poulter, Ia 9 68.89 31 45
Snedeker, 19 68.42 182 266
 

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
Top 10 Greens in Reg:

1 1 Villegas, Camilo 9 78.40 127 162
2 2 Watney, Nick 16 77.38 195 252
3 3 Snedeker, Brandt 19 77.19 264 342
4 4 Watson, Bubba 12 76.54 124 162
5 5 Tomasulo, Peter 12 75.46 163 216
6 6 Hicks, Justin 16 75.35 217 288
7 7 Garrigus, Robert 20 75.00 216 288
8 8 Thompson, Nic 15 74.81 202 270
9 9 Lee, Richard 15 74.44 201 270
10 10 Haas, Bill 19 74.38 241 324
 

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
Top 10 Ball Striking:

1 1 Tomasulo, Peterl 12 10 5 5
2 2 de Jonge, Brend 22 17 2 15
3 3 Thompson, Nichol 15 20 12 8
4 4 Palmer, Ryan 17 26 12 14
5 6 DeLaet, Graham 16 27 16 11
6 4 Norlander, Henrik 12 28 7 21
7 7 Weekley, Boo 14 30 1 29
8 8 Fisher, Ross 14 32 9 23
9 9 Streelman, Kevin 18 40 3 37
 

Dariusz J.

New member
While Kuchar's technique is extremely effective, I think Mahan might have the most "Hoganesque" swing on the planet right now.

Well, one of for sure. He is not using ground forces enough. The first thing I'd change is his stance. One cannot try to swing like Hogan with a parallel stance because it can often end with this:


Although Manassero's stance is the same I'd prefer his action over Mahans for the time being.

Here are Kuchar's basic stats:

Driving Distance 276.5 167th
Driving Accuracy Percentage 54.84% 142nd Fwys Hit - 85 Poss. Fwys - 155
Greens in Reg Percentage 71.21% 73rd Greens Hit - 141 # Holes - 198
Strokes Gained - Putting 1.022 13th
Eagles (Holes per) 49.5 5th
Birdie Average 4.82 15th
Scoring Average 69.747 10th
Sand Save Percentage 71.43% 9th
Total Driving 309 181st
All-Around Ranking 431 23rd

Thanks, Jared. It appears I was overestimating his overall accuracy. What about stats from the last tourney only ? Are they available as well ?

Top 10 Driving Accuracy

1. Furyk, Jim 10 75.68 84 111

Whom else LOL.

Top 10 Greens in Reg:

Whomever it is this statistic is not worth much while the majority of tournaments is being held on papmered courses when one can attack greens no matter when one lies after the drive -- and, consequently, it's much easier to hit greens from this (lack of) rough with PW than from fairway with a #7 iron.

Top 10 Ball Striking:

1 1 Tomasulo, Peterl 12 10 5 5
2 2 de Jonge, Brend 22 17 2 15
3 3 Thompson, Nichol 15 20 12 8
4 4 Palmer, Ryan 17 26 12 14
5 6 DeLaet, Graham 16 27 16 11
6 4 Norlander, Henrik 12 28 7 21
7 7 Weekley, Boo 14 30 1 29
8 8 Fisher, Ross 14 32 9 23
9 9 Streelman, Kevin 18 40 3 37

What this statistics "ballstriking" is dependent on ? Normally, on a normal courses with rough, it would be FIR + GIR. And here ?

Cheers
 
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Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
D, ball striking takes in to account:

Greens hit in regulation
and a combination of a stat called "Total Driving" which reflects distance and accuracy off the tee.
 

Dariusz J.

New member
Why did he shank it, Brian? (or anyone else with an opinion).

Faulty rear side action. As I said, one cannot try to swing like Hogan without rear hip lateral targetwise motion before/at the beginning of the transition. Otherwise, if one starts turning at once as shown on Hogan's elastic band pic from 5L you have no room enough.

D, ball striking takes in to account:

Greens hit in regulation
and a combination of a stat called "Total Driving" which reflects distance and accuracy off the tee.

OK, thanks. As I said before, IMO, GIR value makes sense only on non-pampered courses. Hence, this statistics is rather worthless today.

Cheers
 
Rbarnes needed some BBKIB. That was ALL about balance and stability imo, and the lack thereof. It wasn't that great to start w/ and it got a whole bunch worse. Even on the putts he didn't look balanced throughout the stroke.
 
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