Who's the best amateur player here?

[mkemble]

No problems here (besides my duck hook!) - just wanted to add another point of view from the back of the bus.

 

[mkemble]

Pot...Kettle...Black...

I am glad you got a chance to show how you really feel.

Now for the other side of the story. I play with this type all the time...they think they are better than they are but I see all their OB rights, OB lefts, snipe hooks and slices into every conceivable hazard, not to mention all the shots that were so eloquently stated above. These guys are always claiming that they are "14 hole golfers" and if they could just get rid of the "blow up holes" they would be scratch. They never get there and never will, their arrogance just gets in the way.

The sad news is everyone has bad holes and learning to manage your game is an integral part of the sport. Good Luck.

My bet is you're playing with a lot of 7's.

 

[mkemble]

My bet is you're playing with a lot of 7's. I'm under no illusions - I'm a 14 handicap and claim to be nothing more. On the course, I'm the guy that smiles back blankly while you (figuratively), um, try to fix my swing. Whatever you want to call it - gamesmanship, misplaced enthusiasm, pity - it's the height of arrogance. I guess everybody's gotta be somebody.

 

[Tball88]

mkemble, I'm a 7.4 right now tracking down, lowest I've been is a 5.1. I actually agree with what you say, the mid handicapper (12-20) are the guys who scare me to death in tournaments. Their good enough to put up pars and even some birdies, but typically blow up on a couple of holes. It's interesting the guys in that range win most of the events we have, it's rarely the real high handicappers, or single digit guys. The guys like me (4-9 range) are typically in a tough spot, the mid guys beat them in the handicapped events, but we're not quite good enough to beat the scratch guys straight up. Luckily a lot of events are flighted, so you can win at least some $$.

Oh well, just have to keep working and try to get to that scratch level to you can compete with the big boys.

 

[Jared Willerson]

My bet is you're playing with a lot of 7's. I'm under no illusions - I'm a 14 handicap and claim to be nothing more. On the course, I'm the guy that smiles back blankly while you (figuratively), um, try to fix my swing. Whatever you want to call it - gamesmanship, misplaced enthusiasm, pity - it's the height of arrogance. I guess everybody's gotta be somebody.

I would never try to fix your sorry ass swing. You wouldn't be here if you weren't trying to get better.

It really doesn't matter though. You presented one side, I presented the other. We both took offense.

No pity at all here, enjoy your game.

 

[rogerdodger]

Only one way to find out, we need a Manzella Open tournament

 

[mkemble]

I would never try to fix your sorry ass swing.

Thanks, that's all I'm asking. Well that and for you (the collective "you", not you in particular GL) to stop complaining when I beat you with nothing but my sorry ass swing and 14 handicap. After all, that's what the handicap system is designed to do - level the playing field so golfers of all skill levels can compete against each other. Besides, you guys take most of the side bets

 

[BIGBALL]

I would never try to fix your sorry ass swing. You wouldn't be here if you weren't trying to get better.

It really doesn't matter though. You presented one side, I presented the other. We both took offense.

No pity at all here, enjoy your game.

Well...feel free to fix my sorry ass game

 

[dbl]

Kemble, we should get to scratch or play without handicap adjustments. So don't brag about your 14 h/c serving you well. The handicap is to help "people of differing" abilities to play together...and to make the worse player(s) feel slightly better about their sucky games.

Shooting a 86 (or a 108) netting a par is a ridiculous thing on it's face.

 

[mkemble]

Kemble, we should get to scratch or play without handicap adjustments. So don't brag about your 14 h/c serving you well. The handicap is to help "people of differing" abilities to play together...and to make the worse player(s) feel slightly better about their sucky games.

Shooting a 86 (or a 108) netting a par is a ridiculous thing on it's face.

Ugh...my intent is not to brag - hello, I'm a frigging 14!! - but to add some much needed perspective. My original post was in response to some sandbagging stories, which I'm sure are legit. However, even though my game sucks, so does yours (just not as much as mine) and like it or not, it really is only a few holes where you beat me (baaaaad), and good for you. I'm not hating on you - I wish I had your game (or at least your score) - but for all the posturing and strutting around you do you'd think you're Jack Frigging Nicklaus. Enough already. I'm not saying everyone does this, I'm not saying the majority do it, but for the dudes that do it, you're only fooling yourself.

I mean is it really such a shock that a guy you play with 3 or 4 times a week beats you in a tournament where he's getting 10 strokes? You're gonna call sandbagging on this cat even though you know his game, his miss and his favorite curse word? I guess you aint as good as you thought, slick...THATS THE POINT

 

[trickyric67]

I don't play handicap tourney's. Who wants a trophy that you got because your scoring adjustment was better than someone else's. my friends and I play straight up or we give only what we think we should get to make a good bet, but in tournaments I think you should play in flights without handicaps coming into play on the scorecard. 2 B flight guys go at it and nobody gets strokes.
JMHO

 

[Bigwill]

I don't play handicap tourney's. Who wants a trophy that you got because your scoring adjustment was better than someone else's. my friends and I play straight up or we give only what we think we should get to make a good bet, but in tournaments I think you should play in flights without handicaps coming into play on the scorecard. 2 B flight guys go at it and nobody gets strokes.
JMHO

Yeah, I think that's the only way to get some kind of handle on sandbaggers. Use past tournament scores, and/or a play-in round to determine flight placement. Maybe even throw out the worst half of their handicap scores to help cut down on people using tanked rounds to cheat the system. Someone obviously will still try to beat the system; cheaters will always find a way.

Heck, maybe handicap tournaments should require entrants to keep separate handicaps that use only tournament scores.

 

[Tball88]

I think the biggest problem with the handicap system, is it really isn't meant for match play. I've seen a lot of 15's who get a get as many pars in a round as a 7, but when they blow up, it's not bogey, it's triple bogey. So in a match play situation, they are getting 8 strokes, when they really may play worse on only four holes. The lower handicap is typically at a disadvantage in match play, but has an advantage if it's stroke play.

 

[SJO]

I think the biggest problem with the handicap system, is it really isn't meant for match play. I've seen a lot of 15's who get a get as many pars in a round as a 7, but when they blow up, it's not bogey, it's triple bogey. So in a match play situation, they are getting 8 strokes, when they really may play worse on only four holes. The lower handicap is typically at a disadvantage in match play, but has an advantage if it's stroke play.

A triple bogey or worse is counted as a double bogey when your handicap is adjusted.

 

[Dustin]

A triple bogey or worse is counted as a double bogey when your handicap is adjusted.

That is not true. Equitable stroke depends on your actual handicap index. Double bogey is only the max for someone w/ a 9 or lower cap. In the previous example, a 15 handicap can take no more than a 7 on a hole, which could be a quad bogey on a par 3.

COURSE HANDICAP
MAXIMUM SCORE
POSTED ON ANY HOLE

9 or less hc Double Bogey
10 - 19 7
20 - 29 8
30 - 39 9
40 or more 10

 

[fronesis]

I think the biggest problem with the handicap system, is it really isn't meant for match play. I've seen a lot of 15's who get a get as many pars in a round as a 7, but when they blow up, it's not bogey, it's triple bogey. So in a match play situation, they are getting 8 strokes, when they really may play worse on only four holes. The lower handicap is typically at a disadvantage in match play, but has an advantage if it's stroke play.

I've never played handicap match play in the states, but I played a lot of match play comps in the UK and we NEVER took full handicap for matches. Usually it was 2/3. So if I was a 7 playing against a 1, then I got strokes on 4 holes, not 6. Same thing if I was playing against a 21: he got strokes on 9 holes, not 14.

 

[mkemble]

I've never played handicap match play in the states, but I played a lot of match play comps in the UK and we NEVER took full handicap for matches. Usually it was 2/3. So if I was a 7 playing against a 1, then I got strokes on 4 holes, not 6. Same thing if I was playing against a 21: he got strokes on 9 holes, not 14.

Same deal in the tounreys that I've played in.

 

[Tball88]

We have both at our club. Sometimes they a % of handicap, sometimes you get full handicaps.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

this whole thread is why i never got a handicap...too much crap in it. When i play for money with people it's usually after we've played nine holes together and we made a negotiation for how many shots i or that person gets for the back 9