chipingguru
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Please God not the X-factor!
Fixing "Rugby" and other things....
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SteveT
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Deadly serious ... because your shoulders seem to rotate 90º in the backswing and your hips hardly rotate, but your clothing covers up the hip rotation in the backswing.
Perhaps I'm wrong if the video is deceptive .. so in your next video, wear light colored shorts or even your fruit of the looms if you're not too hung up about that ...
You seem to have an athletic and husky body, but your spine cannot tolerate excessive differential rotation between your hips and shoulders no matter what!!!!
The X-Factor is the term for the angular differential between your hips and shoulder at the end of the backswing. At Reversal, your hips start the downswing sequence and the X-Factor "stretches" even more ... DANGER, believe it..!!!
drewyallop
New
Chip,
Is this the same as delaying the release?
Drew
chipingguru
New
yep, at least to me it is.
As I was told and have witnessed in myself, "fix the clubface and then you can do anything else you want to with your swing".
Twistaway will delay the release some. Then if the correct swivel is done into the follow through it will eliminate the flip. With Rugby's swing right now, he is controlling the D-plane mostly with his wrists flipping the clubhead at the ball. Some days he can time it well and "control the draw".
Once he is able to control the club face with the twistaway and eliminate the flip he can then control the D-plane with his pivot by getting the right shoulder working correctly, by what Ringer says with his backswing, and by working his pivot better by adding some slack at the top of the backswing and initiating the downswing with his lower body.
It is not a quick fix on your own. It has taken me a year and a half so far working on much of the same things by a lot of studying advice given from Kevin, Brian, Michael Jacobs and others here. My ball striking has greatly improved. I rarely lose a ball during a round of golf and play some pretty tight courses where 20 yards off line means ob and would easily lose 3 or more balls in the past.
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chipingguru
New
Twistaway sounds like an excellent tool. I fooled around with it a little on some pitch shots the other day and was getting some nice crispy ones. Two hoppers and a spin to the left. A little apprehensive about integrating it in my full swing at this point, but may.
I wouldn't expect much to be a susceptible quick fix in this game, especially a release issue. I have always thought golfers are divided into two categories - those that have a instinctive release and those that have to manufacture one.
Admittedly, I know nuttin about the D-plane or resultant path, but intend on enlightening myself on those terms.
I wouldn't expect much to be a susceptible quick fix in this game, especially a release issue. I have always thought golfers are divided into two categories - those that have a instinctive release and those that have to manufacture one.
Admittedly, I know nuttin about the D-plane or resultant path, but intend on enlightening myself on those terms.
Not really. The high right shoulder comes from the forward lean. You tilt him properly and the right shoulder doesn't look so high up. Lean anyone forward and their right shoulder gets to this higher position. Thus why S&T has to be so much more vertical in the face on view to achieve their "steeper shoulder turn".
His right elbow does cause me some concern since is sticks to the side of his body and has to extend downward to get to the ball. That again is from the upper body forward lean though. If he was behind the ball instead of in front of it he could extend his right arm forward more instead of down. I prefer a forward extension instead of straight downward extension because it leads the hands ahead of the clubhead longer.
Thanks for that explanation, it makes more sense now when I look at his swing again. It would seem that the s&t taught pros get their axis tilt sooner into the transition with their lower body to overcome their back extension at the top to make that position work.
Precisely.
In fact, look at the legs of an S&T player versus a right side pivot player at impact. You'll notice the S&T player has more left leg bend and their left hip is ahead of their left foot. But the conventional player has their left hip directly over their left foot with a much straighter left leg.
That's because since the head is so much more forward and over the ball, the only way they can have secondary axis tilt at impact is if they make this dramatic leg drive. In some cases I've even seen them suggest that the player drop their head back at the same time.
To the original poster,
Please, just listen to Brian. You may not slice it, but your clubface IS wide open. Your flip at the bottom helps you to square up the face so you don't hit it miles right.
Learn how to keep the clubface more square (with some Twistaway... buy Never Slice Again), and you'll start doing all this pivot stuff more naturally. Until you fix the clubface, a lot of the suggested changes (which aren't necessarily wrong) will be a struggle.
Promise.
Please, just listen to Brian. You may not slice it, but your clubface IS wide open. Your flip at the bottom helps you to square up the face so you don't hit it miles right.
Learn how to keep the clubface more square (with some Twistaway... buy Never Slice Again), and you'll start doing all this pivot stuff more naturally. Until you fix the clubface, a lot of the suggested changes (which aren't necessarily wrong) will be a struggle.
Promise.
Oh I believe him, and I'm sure I only draw it because I've had to compensate so much. I'll be working on it and look forward to his and the insight of others. All the help so far has been outstanding and I am very grateful.
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Here's me today.
Foci: Club face closed to plane and head behind ball.
Results: Moderate. I can now sort of feel when I am open to the plane, however I wasn't staying behind the ball very well. I had a massive hook/draw on EVERYTHING.
Next Session Foci: Club closed/square, stop moving upper back toward target
Summary: I felt today went as well as it could without having ever seen an example or real description of the twistaway drill. I was making better contact than I was yesterday, but everything had a massive hook or draw on it, even when trying to go "up the wall". However, I left the dome feeling upset, yet optimistic...something I haven't felt in a while. I feel like if I figure out the tilt in my backswing, and how to keep my upper back from moving toward the target things will get a lot easier.
Question: What's the short form description of how the back rotates on the backswing? Onto the back foot? Into the back foot? Around the spine? I think I am missing this part of the mental picture chain.
Again, thank you to everyone for everything so far.
Here's me today.
Foci: Club face closed to plane and head behind ball.
Results: Moderate. I can now sort of feel when I am open to the plane, however I wasn't staying behind the ball very well. I had a massive hook/draw on EVERYTHING.
Next Session Foci: Club closed/square, stop moving upper back toward target
Summary: I felt today went as well as it could without having ever seen an example or real description of the twistaway drill. I was making better contact than I was yesterday, but everything had a massive hook or draw on it, even when trying to go "up the wall". However, I left the dome feeling upset, yet optimistic...something I haven't felt in a while. I feel like if I figure out the tilt in my backswing, and how to keep my upper back from moving toward the target things will get a lot easier.
Question: What's the short form description of how the back rotates on the backswing? Onto the back foot? Into the back foot? Around the spine? I think I am missing this part of the mental picture chain.
Again, thank you to everyone for everything so far.
rugby,,,i still question-despite you being athletic and your baseball experience-whether you truly know how to pivot,,,,for golf. imo, everything else can wait until you square this issue out.
in the dtl view, as you back swing, your initially bent right knee straightens/extends, essentially fully, at the top of the backswing. that move alone prevents you from establishing an effective pivot.
can you just backswing but make an effort to keep the bent right knee bent the same way? if you do it correctly, you should feel increased muscle tension around the INSIDE of your right thigh area...
in the dtl view, as you back swing, your initially bent right knee straightens/extends, essentially fully, at the top of the backswing. that move alone prevents you from establishing an effective pivot.
can you just backswing but make an effort to keep the bent right knee bent the same way? if you do it correctly, you should feel increased muscle tension around the INSIDE of your right thigh area...
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No, I don't know how to pivot. I know what it's supposed to look like, and can do it in slow motion or during easy practice swings, but not during a regular swing.
there are real teachers on this forum that probably have a better way to relate to you what i am trying to convey. perhaps they can help out.
for instance, without holding the club, just fold the arms in front of your chest, assume the address position (which you do very well), then start turning the body in backswing fashion. as you do this very slowly, pay 100% attention to your right knee.
1. keep it bent (which you did not do well).
2. as you turn, you should feel the weight slowly shifted from the left leg into the right leg.
3. you should start feeling tightness around the right outer hip and right inner thigh areas.
darn it,,,i know you can do that!!!!!!!
I can do that part if I'm really focusing on it, especially with brians iron on right hip and left shoulder, it's how the pivot works/feels on downswing that throws me off.
my 2 cents stop here
with the dtl view i am positive some teachers here can guide you out of that easily,,,as long as you are willing to give it a try and be open minded stop carrying too much mentally!
here is kevin shields' dtl. unfortunately it is black pants. try to watch it many times to feel the force generation...note that he did not straighten his right knee, the hip turn makes the right knee's alignment looks straighter by perception.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1LhqSiXcWE[/media]
with the dtl view i am positive some teachers here can guide you out of that easily,,,as long as you are willing to give it a try and be open minded
stop carrying too much mentally! here is kevin shields' dtl. unfortunately it is black pants. try to watch it many times to feel the force generation...note that he did not straighten his right knee, the hip turn makes the right knee's alignment looks straighter by perception.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1LhqSiXcWE[/media]
I see you workin'. Some good stuff going on. The club face is still just a bit open through the downswing, but you can definitely tell you are working the twistaway. Take a look at your halfway down club face and compare it to one of Brian's students:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIzhIiP0iGA&feature=channel[/media]
You are going to hit it left until you can get axis tilt behind the ball by moving there in the backswing and working the hips correctly in the transition. Your lower body, hips, separate from the upper body when they move forward to initiate the downswing. Go back and watch Michael Jacobs' vids on acceleration.
To try and answer your backswing pivot question, I try to think of it as a movement as if you just turn to shake hands with someone behind you to the right without moving your feet in your golfing stance, just turn, not sway, back allowing your weight to shift back to lean a little right as you turn. The upper body twist should not be tight, there should be some slack, so that when the lower body goes forward, the slack will be taken out, the club can get to where it should be and you turn as hard as you want to finish the downswing.
Another thing that helped me some is to think about stretching the left side as you go into the downswing.
I'm finding that the golf swing does not have near the lateral movement of a baseball swing. It is going to feel very rotary and tilty to you. If you did this in baseball, it's F3's all day long until they climb the ladder on you, then....I think you know. As I said before, it's going to take some time on your own, but you will be a better golfer for it if you stick with it.
Kevin says he has improved this, but I agree golfdad it still looks like simple, efficient power from the pivot. Camera angle aside, since you have been hitting hooks, notice how far left kevin swings to hit it straight.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIzhIiP0iGA&feature=channel[/media]
You are going to hit it left until you can get axis tilt behind the ball by moving there in the backswing and working the hips correctly in the transition. Your lower body, hips, separate from the upper body when they move forward to initiate the downswing. Go back and watch Michael Jacobs' vids on acceleration.
To try and answer your backswing pivot question, I try to think of it as a movement as if you just turn to shake hands with someone behind you to the right without moving your feet in your golfing stance, just turn, not sway, back allowing your weight to shift back to lean a little right as you turn. The upper body twist should not be tight, there should be some slack, so that when the lower body goes forward, the slack will be taken out, the club can get to where it should be and you turn as hard as you want to finish the downswing.
Another thing that helped me some is to think about stretching the left side as you go into the downswing.
I'm finding that the golf swing does not have near the lateral movement of a baseball swing. It is going to feel very rotary and tilty to you. If you did this in baseball, it's F3's all day long until they climb the ladder on you, then....I think you know. As I said before, it's going to take some time on your own, but you will be a better golfer for it if you stick with it.
Kevin says he has improved this, but I agree golfdad it still looks like simple, efficient power from the pivot. Camera angle aside, since you have been hitting hooks, notice how far left kevin swings to hit it straight.
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