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EdZ

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Lynn - you are supporting my point and don't realize it. The right shoulder must be lower with a more forward ball position, absolutely. When you have more axis tilt you have more 'right arm' left to extend, absolutely. Your right arm has more 'thrust' left in it to extend the radius to actually, finally, extend its full length and complete the radius of the circle at both arms straight. Again, there is nothing about the impact position you/Homer advocate that is different in my view, only WHY it is that way - why having 'more right arm' at impact is a good thing, a very good thing.

Go back to my circle example I gave Corky and explain your view using it.
 
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corky05

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Thanks, Lynn. I think your right about getting in front of a mirror, because everytime I try to integrate something like this into my swing. I have that mentality that if a little is good, more is better, until I take it to extremes and it becomes counterproductive. I appreciate your input!
 
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corky05

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Ed, If you had a good baseline of where your at, it might help. The way that Holenone contributes,I've never felt as though he's trying to pirate Brian's website. His contributions are invaluable and he is the epitome of professionalism.
On the otherhand, you solicit your own copyrighted drills and step on questions directed at him and mislead patrons of this site with misimformation. Philosophical debate is one thing, chronic inaccuracies, another! Try to remember, that Brian is in the golf instruction biz. Sells videos and tries to grow his teaching biz via this website. Sure this is a forum, but, there is a level of territorial respect that Pros afford each other. Are you the guy you see on the driving range of some other golf pros course giving lessons having not consulted with him/her? Just use your head!
 
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Matt Taylor

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I thought that, as a New Orleans Saints fan, I had beaten a dead horse as much as anyone in the history of mankind.

I now see that I am novice. Horses apparently can be beaten well after they have been buried and for that matter, after their rotten corpses have turned into horse skeletons.

Wow.
 
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EdZ

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I've never said Lynn doesn't contribute or is unprofessional, quite the opposite. He is perhaps the best, which is why I am asking for his explaination of where he thinks the circle of the swing's force is centered, and how that relates to compression of the ball with lag.

I've also never claimed anything but positives about Brian's work. We certainly have had our debates, but I respect Brian's knowledge of the swing very much, and have said so.

I have learned from both of them, and from Homer, and from many of the members of this and other boards. I have learned from every ball I have ever hit, and every swing I have ever seen. We ALL learn from each other. As anyone who has been on the board for a while knows, I am very much someone to give credit where and when it is due. I'm not trying to steal anyone's thunder. Not one bit. If I have done so, I appologize. Brian has said in the past that he appreciates my input on his site. We are both after the same goal - better golf for the masses.

Why is that a problem? If either of them have an issue with me sharing what I know about the swing, they are welcome to communicate with me about it. If either of them think something I post is not accurate, I welcome the debate about why - perhaps we will ALL learn something from discussing the various perspectives we have. That is the point of a forum.

To learn from each other.
 
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EdZ

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Corky (alias number?) - what do you mean by your first sentence? If I had a good baseline of what? Of being on this board?
 
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corky05

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Nevermind, Ed. I'm kind of exhausted. I had a plumber come to my door last night and say he couldn't find my water line to hook into, so, he was just gonna retrench the whole thing right up to the house and your I'd need a special $80 switch. He was gonna charge $1000. After he left, I found the line in about 10 minutes. I was so frustrated and angry that he tried to deceive me that I tied into the line and trenched 70 feet on my own with a pick and shovel. I've got three children between 4 and 7 years old and one thats a freshman at Univ. of S. Florida.
Because of that plumber's ignorance and deceit it was gonna cost me $1000. Not on my watch! I'm kind of funny about being deceived. I think it sets me off more than anything. He came by last night and saw me digging in the yard, said, " I see you found the line, I guess your gonna connect it yourself". No kidding, I found the line. That guy lost the business because he lost his credability.
Moral of the story: I knew all along there was no such thing as a Vardon-Toski plumber's switch.
I'm tired from trenching, keep this site safe Ed, Goodnight!
 
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njmp2

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Ed justs wants to be ranked as the third most knowleadgable golf instructor on this forum. Someone that breaks new ground, that has the respect of everyone. Let him have it. Since we fail to follow much of it, He could even be number two. Yes, from here though, he looks like Number two.
 
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holenone

Banned
quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Can you answer my question Lynn, using a circle as I described for corky?
Click to expand...

Maybe on another subject, Ed, but I'm kinda done on this one. I must tell you that I get the same feeling answering your questions as I do playing the 'pea under the shell' game on the streets of New York City. You can watch closely and pick in good faith, but when the shuffling is done, the pea is always under a different shell. :)
 
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EdZ

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Why would you feel that way, I've been very clear about my position of the location of the center of the swings force, and why I feel it is where it is, and have explained why, using a simple circle and the fact that a more forward ball position requires more right wrist bend, and a centered ball position requires less. That the centered ball position represents a more 'complete circle' and a forward ball position represents a circle that is more 'under the ground'.

I'm not trying to play games Lynn, I'm trying to learn.
 
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holenone

Banned
quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Why would you feel that way? I'm not trying to play games Lynn, I'm trying to learn.

[Bold and color by Holenone/Yoda.]
Click to expand...


Welcome, everybody, to The EdZ Jumbled Jeopardy Game. And now, here's our host, EdZ!

EdZ: Today's special guest is Holenone. Everybody ready? Here we go! All right, Holenone, what category would you like?

Holenone: I'll take The Golfing Machine.

EdZ: Ah, good choice there, Holenone. First question, Flails for $200, What is the correct angle of the flail to the Ground at full extension?

Holenone: Theoretically, 90 degrees, but in practice, it can vary.

EdZ (Pressing Red Wrong! Buzzer): AAANNNNNNHHH!!! Sorry, Holenone! That's not the Flail I was talking about. Mine is invisible and connects the shoulders with the Hands. Ready for another question?

Holenone: I'll take Low Points for $300.

EdZ: Another good choice! True or False: The Low Point is always under the ground.

Holenone: False. Depends on where you locate the Low Point at Fix.

EdZ (Pressing Red Wrong! Buzzer): AAANNNNNNHH!!!! Wrong again, Holenone, my man. I was talking about the Low Point of The Force, not of the Club. Want to try again?

Holenone: <No response.>

EdZ: I said, Holenone, want to try again? How about 'Circles' for $400?

EdZ's Assistant: Sorry, Mr. Z, but Holenone has left the building. Said something about forgetting an appointment to get a root canal.

:D
 
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Matt Taylor

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I know this is unsolicited, but the answer, Ed, is obvious:

Your goal in this debate is not to inform -- this is the only the guise. You're only interested in being considered worthy of having a spirited golf swing theory debate with the Alpha. You're trying to be on the same level as Holenone, and you think that if you can engage him in a spirited debate you'll look sharp. Especially if you convince him that you are right.

Every time you are pressed, you state that your goal is to further the debate of golf swing theory to hopefully break some new ground. But that's not what your posts indicate -- they indicate that you want the ego stroke of being known as an expert. If the facts get in the way, no problem, you just twist them around. The shell game analogy was perfect.

Your quote about universal deceit is insightful, and I think you could not have picked a better quote to describe your personality. The idea of being the lone man telling the truth in a corrupt world is heroic, and I share a counter-cultural, stand on your morals above all else mentality with you. But if you create a corrupt world when there is none for the sole purpose of making yourself the beacon of light in the darkness, what does that make you? I don't know the answer to that, but it's not heroic. It's closer to nuerotic. The quote shows that you like the idea of the lone man holding his ground against all odds, but that's not what's going on in this particular debate. In this situation, you are not a revolutionary, you are an egoist who not only won't admit that he is wrong, but you won't leave others in peace if they don't agree with you.

I'm not trying to be a jerk and I hope that you don't think me so. I just felt that somebody needed to call you on what you're doing. I've done many ridiculous things on message boards, much worse than what you've been doing. Nothing is unforgivable, and I don't consider myself your enemy or anything. I just wish you would move your attention to other, more helpful matters because you do contribute and I appreciate anything I may learn from you.

No hard feeling, I hope. Viva la Revolution!
 
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golfie

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quote:Originally posted by EdZ

quote:Originally posted by holenone

quote:Originally posted by EdZ
Lynn - do you agree or disagree that the THRUST, as you put it, continues to both arms straight to a point well ahead of the ball, and UNDER THE GROUND?
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The Thrust of the Stroke always continues Down Plane during the Follow-Through (1-L #15).

However, the Low Point of the Stroke is established at Impact Fix. It may or may not be "under the ground." For example, in a Teed Drive, the Low Point will likely be above the ground, i.e., in the air. For a Putt with a Ball located opposite the Left Shoulder, the Low Point will be on the ground. Only when the Ball is located on the ground (or on a low Tee) behind Low Point -- in other words, a Ball located Up Plane from Low Point -- will the Low Point be under the ground.
Click to expand...

We are talking about different things again Lynn. You are talking about low point of the CLUB and I am talking about low point of the FORCE - the thrust of the swing.

One point to ponder re: this force, and its center

"I let my swing balance me" - Moe Norman
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EdZ,

Forces have no low point. Forces are vectors having a singular direction and magnitude.

Golfie
 
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efnef

New
quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Why would you feel that way, I've been very clear about my position of the location of the center of the swings force, and why I feel it is where it is, and have explained why, using a simple circle and the fact that a more forward ball position requires more right wrist bend, and a centered ball position requires less. That the centered ball position represents a more 'complete circle' and a forward ball position represents a circle that is more 'under the ground'.

I'm not trying to play games Lynn, I'm trying to learn.
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He's right, Ed. Give it a rest. You are hurting our heads.
 
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njmp2

New
quote:Originally posted by efnef

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Why would you feel that way, I've been very clear about my position of the location of the center of the swings force, and why I feel it is where it is, and have explained why, using a simple circle and the fact that a more forward ball position requires more right wrist bend, and a centered ball position requires less. That the centered ball position represents a more 'complete circle' and a forward ball position represents a circle that is more 'under the ground'.

I'm not trying to play games Lynn, I'm trying to learn.
Click to expand...

He's right, Ed. Give it a rest. You are hurting our heads.
Click to expand...

Ditto efnef

Holenone- priceless.

Ed, you are not trying to learn. You are pushing what you think is original thought on readers. Re-group yourself. Wrong is as wrong does. Buddy you are wrong- LEARN THAT!
 
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