Aiming left/swinging left...MANZELLA STRIKES YET AGAIN!

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Brian Manzella

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Tri-State PGA Seminar

Well folks,

Just got back to the Hotel after giving a talk on this very thread for 24 PGA Professionals in Pittsburgh.

It went very well, thanks to the great "Show-Prep" that this thread gave me.

Thanks for all the good questions and comments, and thanks to JeffMann for being a very good contrarian.

The word is getting out folks.
 
How would you characterize the 24 pros?

Shocked but starting to believe?

Had a hunch and now confirmed?

Crying cause they have to change what they teach?

Can't say cause they all read this site now?
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Speech Review.

How would you characterize the 24 pros?

Very nice folks, seemingly very open to new ideas.

Shocked but starting to believe?

Had a hunch and now confirmed?

Surprised, and sure I knew what I was talking about, but just starting to digest.

Crying cause they have to change what they teach?

None.

Only slight debate was on whether the "shaft plane at address" is useful.

Can't say cause they all read this site now?

I think we might get a few new members. ;)
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
One of my main missions....

Getting the word out on the REAL SCIENCE of plane line vs. true path, and how the true path and true clubface creates the D PLANE is very high on my to-do list.

It is really a shame how few folks know the contents of this thread, and how many folks are calling certain things SCIENCE, when they are JUST NOT.
 
There is this thing called physics....and I "recommend" what science says.

I don't recommend something because someone says they are being "Scientific." I find two or three PHDs and some accurate measurements, and go from there.



You will find NO BETTER short simple "explanation" than "detonum's" above.

But I'll do my best in this thread to smarten you and everyone else up.

As a side note, I am going to give a seminar on this information, on June 1, 2009, for the Tri-State PGA Section.



You are going to have to lose the recommendation stuff as per above. :D

Anyhoo, you can aim anyplace you'd like.

But you have to SWING left of the target. WAY LEFT.



All the body part alignments, in three dimensions, matter.

But at the end of the day....only the TOP and BOTTOM of the D-Plane matter to the ball.



Let's start with some terms:

In "dark blue," I will actually do some recommending—the terms I'd suggest folks who teach use for ease of use and learning. The "burnt orange" color is fro the terms TrackMan uses, and the dark green the Golfing Machine usage.

Swing Line
Horizontal Swing Plane - Plane Line in "Golfing Machine" terms, the base line of a plane.
In general, this is the "direction" of your swing.
Plane Angle
Vertical Swing Plane - Plane Angle Basic in "Golfing Machine" terms, the pitch of the roof—so to speak.
Clubhead Path
Club Path - The path of the golf clubhead—or if you like to think smaller, sweetspot—through impact, in 2D space relative to the ground...on the Horizontal Axis.

Homer Kelley either mistakenly believed Clubhead Path not to influence ball flight. He believed that the Plane Line to be responsible for that half of the ball-flight equation.

Because the arc that the clubhead travels on is so big—relative to the 3/4th of an inch to 1/2 inch that the clubhead is on the ball—this path is actually nearly a dead straight line.
Attack Angle
The path of the golf clubhead—or if you like to think smaller, sweetspot—through impact, in 2D space relative to the sky...on the Vertcial Axis.
True Path
A brilliant Manzella-ism :D that is the actual path of the clubhead in 3D space. Think of it as a combination of Club(head) Path and Attack Angle.
Face Angle
Where the clubface is "pointing" in 2D space relative to the ground...on the Horizontal Axis.
True Clubface
A another brilliant Manzella-ism ;) that is where the clubface is actually pointing in 3D space. Think magnetic lie angle tool. Face Angle + Dynamic Loft + Delivered Lie Angle.
Dynamic Loft
The amount of "delivered" loft at impact. You can have a 60° wedge, but if you "de-lofted" it 10°, you had 50° of Dynamic Loft.
Spin Loft
Delivered Loft minus Attack Angle. A 60° wedge, de-lofted to 50° of "Delivered Loft" hit 6° on the way down, would have 56° of "Spin Loft."
D-Plane
A plane angle with three points, the ball, where the TRUE club face is pointing, and where the TRUE path is pointing. Most of the time, the TRUE PATh is on the bottom. The ball will start ~70-85% of the way to the TRUE CLUBFACE, and then curve—UP THE PLANE, toward the TRUE CLUBFACE, until gravity and (or) wind take it out of its journey.
Since the clubhead is striking the ball on the way down with an iron—approximately 6° with a 60° wedge, 5° with a pitching wedge, about 3° with a long iron—the clubhead is STILL TRAVELING downward, outward, and forward on the face of the plane (Vertical Swing Plane).

So, wherever that "Plane" is pointing (Horizontal Swing Plane), the TRUE PATH of that clubhead will be down and out to that line.

With a Driver—which you do not want to hit on the way down, but you can—when it is swung with a 45° Vertical Swing Plane (plane angle), the clubhead is traveling 1° out for every one degree down.

With a club swung at 60°—the club is moving ~0.56° out for every one degree down.


So....


Here is an example straight ball:
(with corrected math)

An 8-iron from 150 yards....

Lets say you hit down 4° at 60° with a 8-iron.....you are also hitting "out" ~2.67°

And since 1° at 100 yards is about ~1.75 yards....

And you hit your 8-iron 150 yards....

You need to AIM and (or) SWING ~2.67° at 150 yards....which is ~7 yards left of the target!


That will give you the bottom of the D-Plane on the target line, and you now have to have the CLUBFACE square to the target, or in this case 2.67° open to the "Plane Line."

Pretty cool, eh?

And by the way, the "HOOKFACE" is simply the sweetspot being behind the center line.

All the above COULDN'T CARE LESS about it.



0.222222 x how many degrees less than 90°

There is a thread somewhere on here about "THE ONE THING THAT WHEN YOU FIRST LEARNED IT BLEW YOUR MIND". This is mine. I only learned 6 months ago that the ball DIDN'T start on the path and curve to the face.....OOPS:eek:

This stuff has completely changed how I swing the club and how I view the game.
 

leon

New
You seriously need to aim a whole 21 feet left to hit 4* down from 150 yds (in this example)? Wow, that is a whole lot more left than I had thought.

Incidentally, I wonder how far left of the flag your ball would end up if you aimed straight?

You know the more I think about it, the more I think the pros have had this right for a while now (without necessarily knowing it). I remember an instruction article on pitching by Faldo from the 80s where he would have you setup aimed left with the face pointing at the target.

Faldo always was awesome though :)
 
You seriously need to aim a whole 21 feet left to hit 4* down from 150 yds (in this example)? Wow, that is a whole lot more left than I had thought.

Incidentally, I wonder how far left of the flag your ball would end up if you aimed straight?

You know the more I think about it, the more I think the pros have had this right for a while now (without necessarily knowing it). I remember an instruction article on pitching by Faldo from the 80s where he would have you setup aimed left with the face pointing at the target.

Faldo always was awesome though :)

I also remember a magazine article talking about "better players" needing to swing more left because they tend to get under plane. Of course, it didn't really explain why, so I had no idea how important it was.

And it didn't talk about the D-plane.
 
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