ggsjpc
New
As long as you get the bigh picture, you should know that the number is too large to get into. If you don't get the big picture than I would review everything.
Aiming left/swinging left...MANZELLA STRIKES YET AGAIN!
- Thread starter JeffM
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As long as you get the bigh picture, you should know that the number is too large to get into. If you don't get the big picture than I would review everything.
ggsjpc
New
The true path is a path tangent to the target line and the clubface intersects the path and the target line at 90 degrees. Lie angle tool would point above the target.
golfbulldog
New
How do you guys incorporate the D plane concept into your swings?
Have you changed your swing or just your static address alignment?
Is the straight plane line concept still useful?
Thanks
Have you changed your swing or just your static address alignment?
Is the straight plane line concept still useful?
Thanks
ggsjpc
You wrote-: "The true path is a path tangent to the target line and the clubface intersects the path and the target line at 90 degrees. Lie angle tool would point above the target."
I cannot picture how the clubface can be at a 90 degree angle to the path and the target line - if the path is at a tangent to the target line.
Could this situation be drawn in 2-D or 3-D?
Jeff.
You wrote-: "The true path is a path tangent to the target line and the clubface intersects the path and the target line at 90 degrees. Lie angle tool would point above the target."
I cannot picture how the clubface can be at a 90 degree angle to the path and the target line - if the path is at a tangent to the target line.
Could this situation be drawn in 2-D or 3-D?
Jeff.
ggsjpc
Let me ask you another question - seeing that there are too many variations that can produce a straight ball flight for you to describe.
Presume that I can consistently hit my 5 iron straight and I define straight as landing the ball within a 8 foot distance of my desired target that is 165 yards away - while aiming directly at the target. During its flight, the ball either travels dead-straight towards the target area or it starts minimally left of the ball-target line and turns slightly rightwards at the end of its ball flight trajectory, or it starts minimally right of the ball-target line and turns slightly leftwards at the end of its ball flight trajectory.
Presume that I have an "average" downward attack angle for a 5-iron (? 2 degrees, ? 3 degrees, ? 4 degrees). Can you tell me what combinations of plane line, club path and clubface angle I must have used in my swing.
Second question - presuming I can consistently land the ball within 8 feet of my target with these different D-plane variations, why would I benefit by aiming left (presuming I have the same degree of D-plane swing consistency/inconsistency) in the execution of my swing?
Jeff.
Let me ask you another question - seeing that there are too many variations that can produce a straight ball flight for you to describe.
Presume that I can consistently hit my 5 iron straight and I define straight as landing the ball within a 8 foot distance of my desired target that is 165 yards away - while aiming directly at the target. During its flight, the ball either travels dead-straight towards the target area or it starts minimally left of the ball-target line and turns slightly rightwards at the end of its ball flight trajectory, or it starts minimally right of the ball-target line and turns slightly leftwards at the end of its ball flight trajectory.
Presume that I have an "average" downward attack angle for a 5-iron (? 2 degrees, ? 3 degrees, ? 4 degrees). Can you tell me what combinations of plane line, club path and clubface angle I must have used in my swing.
Second question - presuming I can consistently land the ball within 8 feet of my target with these different D-plane variations, why would I benefit by aiming left (presuming I have the same degree of D-plane swing consistency/inconsistency) in the execution of my swing?
Jeff.
ggsjpc
New
The picture that detonum provided toward the beginning of this thread should help you picture it.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
More good stuff...
First of all, I want to say that "ggspc" is answering these very well.
I just want my crack at it!
The clubface would be 2.24° open to the plane line, and 0° square to the 2D path & the TRUE path.
Write these three sentences on a chalkboard 50 times...
Ain't nothin' apparent about it, it just does.
No.
No.
I bet some folks are out there working on it.
Whoa.
Too many to mention, but a chart could be done.
The "TRUE PATH" would be a vector pointing INTO THE GROUND 2.67° that is parallel to the target line.
The "TRUE CLUBFACE" would pointing about 24° into the sky, parallel to the target line (which would mean about 11° of forward leaning shaft!)
Her's what I do—and teach.
Aim to X
Swing to X using whatever "Straight Plane Line" concept works for you (Like the yellow brick road).
Make sure the face is open enough to point close to the target.
Yeah baby!
First of all, I want to say that "ggspc" is answering these very well.
I just want my crack at it!
The clubface would be 2.24° open to the plane line, and 0° square to the 2D path & the TRUE path.
Write these three sentences on a chalkboard 50 times...
1. When you hit down on the ball, your path will be to the right of the plane line.
2. When you hit the ball level at the bottom of your swing, your path will be the same as your plane line.
3. When you hit up on the ball, your path will be to the left of the plane line.
2. When you hit the ball level at the bottom of your swing, your path will be the same as your plane line.
3. When you hit up on the ball, your path will be to the left of the plane line.
Ain't nothin' apparent about it, it just does.
No.
No.
I bet some folks are out there working on it.
Whoa.
Too many to mention, but a chart could be done.
The "TRUE PATH" would be a vector pointing INTO THE GROUND 2.67° that is parallel to the target line.
The "TRUE CLUBFACE" would pointing about 24° into the sky, parallel to the target line (which would mean about 11° of forward leaning shaft!)
Her's what I do—and teach.
Aim to X
Swing to X using whatever "Straight Plane Line" concept works for you (Like the yellow brick road).
Make sure the face is open enough to point close to the target.
Yeah baby!
ggsjpc
New
First things first. To me, straight only means straight. Everything discussed has been about actually hitting it straight.
ok straight as I defined would have a plane line slightly left of target line so true path would be at target and club face perpendicular to target.
starts slightly left and curves right. Plane line would be slightly more left than straight ball, true path would be slightly right of plane and face slightly right of that but left of target.
starts slightly right and curves left. Plane line at target, true path right of that and clubface left of true path and right of plane line.
if you want the math, you'll have to ask Brian.
For your second question, aiming left is neither a benefit or handicap. All that is being said is if you want to hit an actual straight shot with the assumption of downward attack angle, you would need a plane line left of the target. If my student was consistently hitting it 8 feet from the target I'd get the hell out of the way.
ggsjpc
New
Brian, I hope you took no offense. Got stuck with rainy day here in New York.
Jeff---I think it better that you address your questions to Brian and the other academy instructors. I am just a guest here. I can only give you big picture. Brian has much more knowledge about the details, especially in the third dimension.
Jeff---I think it better that you address your questions to Brian and the other academy instructors. I am just a guest here. I can only give you big picture. Brian has much more knowledge about the details, especially in the third dimension.
ggsjpc
Thank you very much for the D-plane descriptive reply regarding the different path/face variations.
I am happy to live with those variations and I would be happy to always hit my approach shots so that they always land within a distance of 8 feet of my target. That's a high degree of accuracy from my perspective. I would have no incentive to aim left/swing left if it cannot reduce the 8 foot radius accuracy of my approach shots.
Jeff.
Thank you very much for the D-plane descriptive reply regarding the different path/face variations.
I am happy to live with those variations and I would be happy to always hit my approach shots so that they always land within a distance of 8 feet of my target. That's a high degree of accuracy from my perspective. I would have no incentive to aim left/swing left if it cannot reduce the 8 foot radius accuracy of my approach shots.
Jeff.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
"But our guy just won the tournament, our stuff must be right."
They cry of every method teacher in the world.
"It works good enough"
The cry of everyone who just got BLOWN UP by real science.
Jeff,
You NOW KNOW what really happens, you have NO SUCH 8-foot circle.
You will HAVE TO TRY to "do it right."
And you may discover, that "right" for you, is aim straight, swing straight, produce the 2.67° out TRUE PATH, and try for clubface of about 1.5° open and hit a pretty little draw.
I take that apology in writing, on my desk, Monday morning.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Yeah, but that's a mighty big letdown from "How To Hit The Ball Dead Straight."
A little crow wouldn't hurt ya dude.
jguidroz
New
I have to say after reading this thread, I had my best round of the year so far. And it was all from aiming left with all my iron shots. I hit more shots closer to the pin in probably all the years I've played golf. The only thought I had when addressing an iron or wedge shot was aim left. The highlight of the round was hitting a 5 iron from 185 to 3 feet for a back pin position (made the birdie putt).
Now if I could only add consistency and putting to my game, I may actually break 80 every now and then.
Now if I could only add consistency and putting to my game, I may actually break 80 every now and then.
hell yeah. that pretty much sums it up.
Caught part of TGC Colonial replay last night. Toms and Stricker were aiming decidely left of the flag with their shorter irons with good results. Interestingly Furyk seemed to be aiming at the flag with poor results. Nothing conclusive but interesting to watch how each guy aligns and the resulting ball flight.
ssssc
New
did any of you guys hear the announcers today talking about how vj's new practice thing is sticking an umbrella in front of himself so he can work on swinging left more!
i have never heard of swinging left until recently, and now it dominates the forum and peeps on tv are doing and talking about it ...
Duane
i have never heard of swinging left until recently, and now it dominates the forum and peeps on tv are doing and talking about it ...
Duane
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curtisj76
New
did any of you guys hear the announcers today talking about how vj's new practice thing is sticking an umbrella in front of himself so he can work on swinging left more!
i have never heard of swinging left until recently, and now it dominates the forum and peeps on tv are doing and talking about it ...
Duane
Well he's always had the water bottle thing that helped him swing to the left.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
VJ swings like 400* inside/out which is why he has 7* open drivers made for him. The more left he could swing (to a point) would be better for him.
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