Brian Manzella
Administrator
Did I win something being right?
Brian: I already got Flightscope and 4DSwing. I think that's good enough
You have already won....
All you picture looking golf swing THEORISTS...come in to my office...:)
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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You have already won....
duckjr78
New
I'd be willing to bet this slightly used jelly donut, that no one here (at least those of us not doing it for a living) would be able to spot any changes in these two swings if they weren't so clearly "setup" as before/after swings. I'm the most ill-equiped member here to be talking about swing stuff, but these two sets of images look like they are within the "margin of error" that occurs from swing-to-swing on a good player. No one (that we've never heard of) repeats their move exactly, and these look like a good player making good looking swings - both sets.
If these images were posted in passing, I'd say none of this detailed guessing would be going on because the visual difference are negligable on a swing-to-swing basis - further illustrating the main point of our host. I believe we were thrown a bone so we all don't feel like...
"Who took the gem outta your donut?"
Nice post Granato
Mike Thomas (sunmart)
New member
Brian, Did we ever see your post Trackman improved swing?
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SteveT
Guest
TrackMan is only a scientific tool... but what is the scientific method...??!!!
Matt 4-L
New
Sure looks like a different club face after impact, the top pic is less rotated probably told him to straighten right wrist and not roll it so much. The left elbow is less rotated as well. Both are nice looking swings on film but with out seeing ball flight couldn't tell which swing played better, if we are guessing I would say the new release is a straight ball flight to a fade bias. And the old swing struggled with blocks and hooks.
It's kind of obvious no one will be to be able to tell the numbers from a Trackman looking at a pic. some probably can't figure the numbers out and how they relate to making changes to a golfer even using a Trackman. But you can see subtle differences, how the changes were accomplished would also be kind of hard to know the answer to. There must of been a lot of lucky players before Trackman.
Amen Corner
New
B,
Are you saying that by only using video, you or the teacher using it, are clueless?
If you only had the camera at hand, for what ever reason, and you knew what to change on this, or the student in front of you.
Would you not know what and where to look for those changes?
I can see that (and this is based on the belief that it is the same camera angle, you have not said anything about that...)
- there is a diff in ballplacement which in a way affects
- the "release point"/the pic before impact is changed a tad on the upper pics.
- there is a tad of diff in shaft angle at impact (even though they dont match exactly)
- a diff rate of closure after impact
- a diff in arc length
Are you saying that by only using video, you or the teacher using it, are clueless?
If you only had the camera at hand, for what ever reason, and you knew what to change on this, or the student in front of you.
Would you not know what and where to look for those changes?
I can see that (and this is based on the belief that it is the same camera angle, you have not said anything about that...)
- there is a diff in ballplacement which in a way affects
- the "release point"/the pic before impact is changed a tad on the upper pics.
- there is a tad of diff in shaft angle at impact (even though they dont match exactly)
- a diff rate of closure after impact
- a diff in arc length
Is a scientific method or a scientific process?
On the lower photo series the club shaft is more inline with the left arm. Less forward shaft lean, less (close to zero) FATS and a normal force that runs straight through the shaft and up to the left shoulder.
This should give more distance and less spin loft and a more shallow angle of attack.
Brian;
Do you expect to see the same impact geometry face on with all good golfers after such an optimization, or does the optimum alignment vary from player to player?
This should give more distance and less spin loft and a more shallow angle of attack.
Brian;
Do you expect to see the same impact geometry face on with all good golfers after such an optimization, or does the optimum alignment vary from player to player?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
It did the opposite.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
What components in the swing are most important in causing this?
I'd be willing to bet this slightly used jelly donut, that no one here (at least those of us not doing it for a living) would be able to spot any changes in these two swings if they weren't so clearly "setup" as before/after swings. I'm the most ill-equiped member here to be talking about swing stuff, but these two sets of images look like they are within the "margin of error" that occurs from swing-to-swing on a good player. No one (that we've never heard of) repeats their move exactly, and these look like a good player making good looking swings - both sets.
If these images were posted in passing, I'd say none of this detailed guessing would be going on because the visual difference are negligable on a swing-to-swing basis - further illustrating the main point of our host. I believe we were thrown a bone so we all don't feel like...
To a large extent I would agree. Only a very trained eye coupled with extensive golf technique knowledge could spot differences here that would be of any relevance/advantage. But there ARE visible differences, and that is a FACT. I may have been particularly receptive to them because his swing was like mine, until Brian saved him from a unpleasant future.
Brian, surely you wouldn't teach WITHOUT video? Obviously you didn't in this case.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
To a large extent I would agree. Only a very trained eye coupled with extensive golf technique knowledge could spot differences here that would be of any relevance/advantage. But there ARE visible differences, and that is a FACT. I may have been particularly receptive to them because his swing was like mine, until Brian saved him from a unpleasant future.
Brian, surely you wouldn't teach WITHOUT video? Obviously you didn't in this case.
Almost didn't take the camera out of the bag in 90 minutes.
If fact I NEVER SHOWED IT TO HIM.
I took a before, like I almost always do, and then I took and after knowing I'd use it to make this point.
Mmm. Interesting. Reminds me of Bob Torrance saying that golf coaches who need a camera "don't have f^&*ing clue".
However, this player had a swing with very few "issues". What about someone who has a poor swing, whereby you might want to see when the right arm is straightening. Or maybe you might be unsure as to why he hits it fat regularly and you can't see it with the naked eye? Trackman CANNOT tell you that.
Originally Posted by Brian Manzella
I now like right arms that don't straighten through impact.
Funny, David never straightened his.
Take a guess.
I now like right arms that don't straighten through impact.
Funny, David never straightened his.
Take a guess.
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SteveT
Guest
I still maintain that the position of the hands on the club handle are different... the first being weaker and the second being stronger.
You can see that even with the glove on. Explain that!
You can see that even with the glove on. Explain that!
dschultz6072
New
Brother you're pretty strange
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