Breaking through my scoring comfort zone

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Chris Sturgess said:
Yeah, I am aware of what "lagging the hosel" is. The point I am making that neither you nor Brian are aware of or would admit to with in that thread is that many shanks occur with a square clubface. You all were under the impression that a shank only occurs with an open clubface. You can type in all caps all you want but that doesn't change the reality of that.
Click to expand...

Find a way to shank it on a full swing with a square clubface and then i'll believe, the reality is that you can't because if the face is really that square or even a few degrees open/closed you are not lagging the hosel, you are lagging the sweetspot and are bringing the feel of that sweetspot to the ball thus you hit the ball with some part of the face and not the hosel
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Jim Kobylinski said:
Find a way to shank it on a full swing with a square clubface and then i'll believe, the reality is that you can't because if the face is really that square or even a few degrees open/closed you are not lagging the hosel, you are lagging the sweetspot and are bringing the feel of that sweetspot to the ball thus you hit the ball with some part of the face and not the hosel
Click to expand...

Actually the FACE can be closed or square at IMPACT!

But it was WIDE OPEN when pressure was applied.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
My personal take on choking. When I played a PGA Tour event in my hometown, I was striking it as well as I ever had, pumped up on the range. I got to the first tee and saw every person I seemingly ever met in my life in the bleachers. My head went numb and i lost feeling in my legs. I could barely tee it up, didn't remember swinging and........310 right down the sprinkler line.I was choking as bad as anyone ever and still produced. Shot 141 and almost made the cut. You make the call on that.

There have been other times where I wasn't hitting it well, had doubts and still hit it well. Same scenario other times and played terrible.

All I know is a common denominator to most every time I have played well in a HIGH PRESSURE situation (tour events, big crowds, money games, etc) I was in control of my ball which led to a less stressful mental outlook.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Chris Sturgess said:
So do you admit he's wrong on this issue then? He doesn't. Both of you are afraid to address my previous post i.e. the substance of the argument. Why would this be if neither of you are afraid to admit when you're wrong?



"No teacher" is an overstatement. You admit you're wrong on some things way after the fact but never at the time of the discussion. You never admitted you were wrong when you so clearly were in the discussion we had about shanking where you thought the only way people shank was with an open clubface. You also say everything with great bravado and abrasiveness which are not traits of someone who readily admits when they're wrong.




I'm not even a contrarian, I agree with you about a lot of things, I just don't agree about everything. To you someone who doesn't agree with everything is a contrarian I guess. Anyway, I work for an investment company, have played in tournaments in the past but not recently. Now I mostly just play for fun and low scores. I've never been a teaching pro but I've given friends instruction that took them from shooting in the 90s to shooting in the high 70s and then they had people they know come to me for lessons so I did that on the side for a little while but frankly it got annoying and time consuming.
Click to expand...

An financial advisor with little tourney experience who finds teaching annoying. To think all this time I thought you had no credibility:rolleyes:
 
C

Chris Sturgess

New member
Yeah you guys are right. Everybody chokes the exact same amount. Nobody plays better or worse under pressure than anyone else. Corey Pavin and Jeff Sluman have a lot more golf swing knowledge than Brian Manzella since they have nothing special going on physically and that is the only possible thing making them vastly better players.

What a kool aid drinking fest this is.
 
C

Chris Sturgess

New member
doubled said:
An financial advisor with little tourney experience who finds teaching annoying. To think all this time I thought you had no credibility:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Who cares what my credibility is, the substance of what I'm saying makes sense. All you have said is that sometimes you hit a good shot under pressure and sometimes you don't, and you are really proud of one time you did. That's great an all but you have yet to make a point.
 
H

holeout

New
Chris Sturgess said:
Who cares what my credibility is, the substance of what I'm saying makes sense. All you have said is that sometimes you hit a good shot under pressure and sometimes you don't, and you are really proud of one time you did. That's great an all but you have yet to make a point.
Click to expand...

Obviously, Chris, the substance of what you're saying doesn't make sense to these guys since they're disagreeing with you.

Your credibility comes into question since we're talking about how people react under pressure when playing golf, and it's obvious that you've very rarely, if ever, held your own feet to the fire on the golf course. And guys like Kevin and Tom have, many many times over, put themselves under pressure in tournament conditions.

When it comes to handling pressure, who's opinion are you going to value higher? A guy who has loads of tournament experience, or a guy with hardly any?
 
Last edited:
L

LiftOff

New
holeout said:
Obviously, Chris, the substance of what you're saying obviously doesn't make sense to these guys since they're disagreeing with you.

Your credibility comes into question since we're talking about how people react under pressure when playing golf, and it's obvious that you've very rarely, if ever, held your own feet to the fire on the golf course. And guys like Kevin and Tom have, many many times over, put themselves under pressure in tournament conditions.

When it comes to handling pressure, who's opinion are you going to value higher? A guy who has loads of tournament experience, or a guy with hardly any?
Click to expand...

holeout: Nice wrap up. Short and succinct.
 
C

Chris Sturgess

New member
holeout said:
Obviously, Chris, the substance of what you're saying obviously doesn't make sense to these guys since they're disagreeing with you.
Click to expand...

Yeah well they're wrong. It makes sense regardless.

holeout said:
Your credibility comes into question since we're talking about how people react under pressure when playing golf, and it's obvious that you've very rarely, if ever, held your own feet to the fire on the golf course. And guys like Kevin and Tom have, many many times over, put themselves under pressure in tournament conditions.
Click to expand...

Anyone trying to perform any shot that they think matters has had their "feet to the fire". So that is basically everybody. The thread starter who is trying to break through a scoring barrier feels pressure on the back nine. And if a pissing match is what your interested in I have beaten Charles Howell and Lucas Glover in a junior tournament. They played very mediocre, but they were in the field, haha.

holeout said:
When it comes to handling pressure, who's opinion are you going to value higher? A guy who has loads of tournament experience, or a guy with hardly any?
Click to expand...

Hardly any...I have plenty. But I don't even care about that. Logic is on my side here. Don't believe everything you hear just because the source is supposed to be super duper. Try thinking for yourself instead of being a sheep. Gary Player is one of the best golfers of all time (as opposed to some guy who couldn't even make the pga tour) and he thinks the pga tour has a big steroids problem. I guess you believe that too.:rolleyes: Set down the kool aid and try thinking for yourself. You and others here must get ripped off by car dealers and credit lenders all the time.
 
Last edited:
H

holeout

New
Chris Sturgess said:
holeout said:
Obviously, Chris, the substance of what you're saying obviously doesn't make sense to these guys since they're disagreeing with you.

Yeah well they're wrong.



Anyone trying to perform any shot that they think matters has had their "feet to the fire". So that is basically everybody. The thread starter who is trying to break through a scoring barrier feels pressure on the back nine. And if a pissing match is what your interested in I have beaten Charles Howell and Lucas Glover in a junior tournament. They played very mediocre, but they were in the field, haha.



Hardly any...I have plenty. But I don't even care about that. Logic is on my side here. Don't believe everything you hear just because the source is supposed to be super duper. Try thinking for yourself instead of being a sheep. Gary Player is one of the best golfers of all time (as opposed to some guy who couldn't even make the pga tour) and he thinks the pga tour has a big steroids problem. I guess you believe that too.:rolleyes: Set down the kool aid and try thinking for yourself.
Click to expand...

Chris,

I never knew you had that kind of tournament experience. When you posted your "credentials," you mentioned this nowhere. I apologize for making that assumption; glad to hear you've got something to back up what you're saying.

And, Chris, let's not forget that I agreed with you that there is a learning process when it comes to executing shots on the course and developing decision making skills. There's more to tournament golf and shooting good scores than just hitting good shots and being talented. I know that and I agree with you on that.

But, you tend to alienate people when you are in constant "Attack!" mode and get super defensive of your positions when people disagree with you.

And for goodness sakes, stop calling people sheep. You sound like some grad-student who just read Howard Zinn for the first time. If you'd read what I'd written, you'd know that I don't fully agree with Tom's opinions. But it seems that you find yourself (and possibly thefuture37 :)) to be the only people on this forum who "think for themselves."

I like you Chris, and think you have a lot to contribute. But instead of trying to make sure everyone knows just how much you disagree with what someone else is saying, you should just say your piece, make an argument, and let it stand on it's own without calling people names.
Click to expand...
 
C

Chris Sturgess

New member
I don't "attack" anything anymore than Brian does. Less actually.

I didn't remember that your stance on this issue from the previous pages.

But for your own good you must realize you value credentials way, way too much. The have some value but substance trumps them by a factor of infinity. And at least in that respect you and others are not thinking for yourself but just being a follower, i.e. sheep, lemming whatever. It is necessary and legitimate to say regardless of bratty grad students (who are mostly right, but still bratty). Plus, I like to see if people who consider themselves experts can admit they're wrong when they are. So far, the answer is no, haha.
 
C

Chris Sturgess

New member
I mean, seriously, Tom, Brian, and doubled think that all people choke the exact same amount. They think however good you are in a practice round you will be in a tournament, or if you know how to aim, however good you are on the range as you are on the course. They think if you have never broken 90 before and you have to par the last hole to shoot 89 then the average joe will play the same as they did on any other hole. They think Tiger Woods and Greg Norman choke the exact same amount, i.e. that they both play to their potential an equal amount under pressure. It's laughable, not just because it's clearly wrong, but because they don't want to admit they're wrong.
 
Last edited:
D

dannyc

New
my $0.02

i went from 38 putts to 28 putts overnight.
how?
got frustrated, took a lesson, didn't help. on the way home, stopped at the library, checked out a book by a well known sp psych, changed the way i thought and approached the game. next day, 28 putts. following week, first round ever under par. i had shot even a few times, but never under. i shattered my personal best...i shot four under.

in my opinion, there is no substitute for a good mental approach. doesn't mean you don't need mechanics...
everybody gets nervous. nerves=adrenaline. its how you handle it that makes it a "choke" (norman) or a peak performance (tiger)
 
D

dbl

New
Chris I think you are setting up staw men, and that is a poor mental crutch. Also, I know plenty of high scoring amateurs where your stuff just doesn't apply. Can you accept that? Seems you are a black and whiter and insist your view should hold for those who think with gray tones.
 
Last edited:
C

Chris Sturgess

New member
You are extremely vague.

What "stuff" that I have said doesn't apply to the high scoring amateurs you know?

What straw men have I set up?

Black and white vs gray tones? What does that have to do with anything? It is a black and white issue, the non golf swing related mental aspect of golf either exists or it doesn't. What is a mental crutch is to try to make everything a gray tone because you don't want to ever say anything that could turn out to be wrong.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top