Brian, how do i swing faster?

[Jim Kobylinski]

Currently i swing the driver roughly 110-112 when i'm warmed up fully. I drive the ball in the 280-295 range with the occasional 300 yard poke a round as i can get the swing speed up to 115 once in a while.

My current pattern is similar to Mike Finney's if not almost exact:

- Use your grip
- Your backswing pivot
- Your downswing pivot
- As much delay as i can create (feels maximum to me)
- I turn the clubface to the ground as you taught me ala ben doyle
- It's a double shift eblow plane swing as well using a lagging clubhead takeaway

Now, i use both launch monitors and a swing speed radar to monitor my swing speed and ball speed numbers. The problem is that if i ever try and really create some more speed the swing speed and ball speed SLOW DOWN. Probably because there's some over-acceleration involved? Whenever i try to keep my hand speed even on the backswing/downswing i get the maximum amount of speed i can create. It just feels sooooooo easy that i know there has to be a way to "find some more."

I am outta shape some and feel if i lost a little weight and got back to the gym i'd probably add a few mph but i need to figure out a way to do it with technique as well.

Any ideas?

Thanks

 

[tongzilla]

There are no secrets, but I will say this...

There are two types of golfers. Those who try to swing harder their clubhead speed decreases. And those whose clubhead speed increase when they try to swing harder.

The second group of people knows what Lag Pressure feels like (whether they are fimiliar with TGM or not), and knows how direct their effort into increasing that Lag Pressure. However, the first group of people increase their effort into something else other than Lag Pressure, such as faster hips or shoulders, or faster hands at start down. But because they are not using that effort into what matters, their clubhead speed does not increase even though they are putting much more effort in. Your brain still correlates that extra effort with more clubhead speed and you need to re-wire your system so your brain knows that it is extra Lag Pressure that will give you more power.

Telling people to swing easier or softer to increase clubhead speed will work for intermediate golfers, because they are always getting in their own way. But once you're good, that old piece of advice will fail and you will need to learn how to swing harder.

 

[mrodock]

Jim,

Forearm and hand strength is probably more important than most people think in swinging the club fast. If your swing and body can handle 125 mph but your hands and forearms can't, you won't swing that fast. Subconsciously you will be afraid of the club flying out of your hands.

Matt

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

There are no secrets, but I will say this...

There are two types of golfers. Those who try to swing harder their clubhead speed decreases. And those whose clubhead speed increase when they try to swing harder.

The second group of people knows what Lag Pressure feels like (whether they are fimiliar with TGM or not), and knows how direct their effort into increasing that Lag Pressure. However, the first group of people increase their effort into something else other than Lag Pressure, such as faster hips or shoulders, or faster hands at start down. But because they are not using that effort into what matters, their clubhead speed does not increase even though they are putting much more effort in. Your brain still correlates that extra effort with more clubhead speed and you need to re-wire your system so your brain knows that it is extra Lag Pressure that will give you more power.

Telling people to swing easier or softer to increase clubhead speed will work for intermediate golfers, because they are always getting in their own way. But once you're good, that old piece of advice will fail and you will need to learn how to swing harder.

Great advice Tong, however i know how to vary lag pressure to vary my current swing speed so that isn't an issue. So i'm trying to find other ways to increase my current lag pressure.

Mr...thanks for the info

 

[Bigwill]

Something that has worked for me has been to see what type of technique creates more clubhead speed by swinging a club and listening to the whoosh. The higher pitched and louder it is, the faster the clubhead is moving. By adjusting different components in the swing, working on different tempos, etc., I'm able to find out what makes my swing faster or slower.

 

[tourdeep]

I am outta shape some and feel if i lost a little weight and got back to the gym i'd probably add a few mph but i need to figure out a way to do it with technique as well.

Any ideas?

Thanks

I think you've got a great solution James, the added strength along with stretching exercises to increase flexibility will take care of the technique especially with a swing like Finney's...

 

[mrodock]

Work a lot on active flexibility, some passive flexibility, but active is where it's at. If you need exercises I know of quite a few good ones.

Matt

 

[mrodock]

In Golf Digest about a year ago I think they had a test that gives you an idea of your hand strength and what clubhead speed you are capable of. You basically put a tee in a pliers and squeeze as hard as possible and see how many distinct marks make it into the tee. My clubhead speed corresponded very well to the test. This might be a little evidence it is a good test. Anyway, if anyone is interested in it I will try to find it again.

Matt

 

[Bigwill]

In Golf Digest about a year ago I think they had a test that gives you an idea of your hand strength and what clubhead speed you are capable of. You basically put a tee in a pliers and squeeze as hard as possible and see how many distinct marks make it into the tee. My clubhead speed corresponded very well to the test. This might be a little evidence it is a good test. Anyway, if anyone is interested in it I will try to find it again.

Matt

I'd heard about this, but hadn't heard much since. If you could find it, I'd definitely appreciate it.

 

[mrodock]

Hey Jim,

What kind of swing speed analyzer do you own? Is it consistent with the launch monitor you use? I'm not so sure my swing speed analyzer is reliable.

Matt

 

[bantamben2]

i dont see how hand strength and forearm strength will make you swing any faster. and that tee test seems kinda silly i highly doubt that charles howell has very strong arms or hands. what he does have is a big turn and stores and releases his power accumulaters in the proper sequence so at impact the club is moving much faster than the hands. I would see where your hands are before the club starts releasing and try to release it later. I wouldn't try to get more lag just keep the lag you have later into the downswing so it has more accelleration left in it as it gets closer to the ball. have you ever posted your swing here if not post it so we can see if you are at least applying the power you have stored in your swing efficently to the ball

 

[mrodock]

There has been good research on this bantamben part 2. I was told of it by a fitness coach. Don't know if I could dig it up. It was a lot more scientific than I don't think Charles has strong forearms. Anyway, it is not hand and forearm strength that helps you create more clubhead speed but allows you to swing at your maximum speed. Anyone that can find valid research to dictate this is incorrect I would be most interested.

I'll work at finding the article bigwill.

Matt

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

i dont see how hand strength and forearm strength will make you swing any faster. and that tee test seems kinda silly i highly doubt that charles howell has very strong arms or hands. what he does have is a big turn and stores and releases his power accumulaters in the proper sequence so at impact the club is moving much faster than the hands. I would see where your hands are before the club starts releasing and try to release it later. I wouldn't try to get more lag just keep the lag you have later into the downswing so it has more accelleration left in it as it gets closer to the ball. have you ever posted your swing here if not post it so we can see if you are at least applying the power you have stored in your swing efficently to the ball

I have a friend built like Howell and probably weighs LESS. He is a whopping 140lbs and all of 5'10". He hits it MUCH FURTHER than Howell too. Pretty crazy, doesn't look that strong. However he can routinely bench 40-60lbs over his weight which is extremely good. He also has very strong forearms and arms. Pound for Pound he is stronger than in at least in the upper body than me. He has chicken legs though lol.

there is at least SOME correlation between strength and speed in the golf swing. It may not be a 'huge' correlation but it is there.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I think you've got a great solution James, the added strength along with stretching exercises to increase flexibility will take care of the technique especially with a swing like Finney's...

LOL...James i feel like i'm at work.

Jim please!

 

[mrodock]

bantamben2,

Here is one thing I found that Tiger wrote in Golf Digest:

Everybody is different. I can't do the same workout routine that everybody else does. Nor can they do the same workout routine that I do. It has to be individualized because everybody's makeup is different.

It's been an evolution for me to get my body to where it is now. I've made mistakes in weightlifting. I've lifted improperly, and I've learned. I wasn't born with a body like Bo Jackson's or one that can jump out of a gym like Michael Jordan's. I've had to learn to adapt my lifting style to it.

That said, there are a few simple exercises any golfer can do. One of the best is a hand-strengthening exercise that Ken Griffey Jr. showed me--hand strength being directly related to swing speed. Lay out a newspaper and scrunch it up one sheet at a time, as I'm doing at right. Sounds easy, but it isn't.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

mrodock, any articles would be helpful.

Also i feel the best and most accurate you can get right now is the "swing speed radar." It measures both swing speed and ball speed (new one has tempo too) and find it correlates with my launch monitor numbers.

The belltronics swingmate reads a little high most of the time and isn't the best imo.

 

[Bigwill]

i dont see how hand strength and forearm strength will make you swing any faster. and that tee test seems kinda silly i highly doubt that charles howell has very strong arms or hands. what he does have is a big turn and stores and releases his power accumulaters in the proper sequence so at impact the club is moving much faster than the hands. I would see where your hands are before the club starts releasing and try to release it later. I wouldn't try to get more lag just keep the lag you have later into the downswing so it has more accelleration left in it as it gets closer to the ball. have you ever posted your swing here if not post it so we can see if you are at least applying the power you have stored in your swing efficently to the ball

The theory is that you can only swing at a speed that your hands are strong enough to handle. If the hinge or clamp on the Iron Byron that serves as the hand/wrist can only handle a swing speed of 95 mph, and you set it up for 170 mph, you may have to duck, because something is going to go wrong. The human body has a sort of failsafe to prevent that from happening. So if you have the physical potential to generate 125mph, but your hands can only handle 90mph or so, you won't be able to get 125; your body won't let you until your hands can handle it. At least, that's how I understand it

 

[tongzilla]

Good points Bigwill, isn't the human body amazing...

I've said this before and I'll say it again...assuming you've got reasonable technique, if you want to hit the golf ball further, you need to be explosive and powerful (which isn't strength per se, although related to it), e.g. 100 meter sprinters, shot putters, etc.

Most tour player's fitness training program will NOT cause them to drive the ball longer (even though they may think it does). All this core stability, flexibility training, isolated weight training, cardio workout stuff is only good for injury prevention allowing them a longer life span on tour. But if you really want to hit the ball longer, you need a completely different way of training, a way of increasing your body's capacity to produce a lot of force in a very small amount of time.

 

[mrodock]

Bigwill: Exactly what I was trying to say, nice work.

Tongzilla: Great points. A lot of the long drivers are former power lifters.

Jim: Thanks for the info, I might buy the one that measures swing speed too high . I'll look for articles if I can.

Matt

 

[rundmc]

mrodock, any articles would be helpful.

Also i feel the best and most accurate you can get right now is the "swing speed radar." It measures both swing speed and ball speed (new one has tempo too) and find it correlates with my launch monitor numbers.

The belltronics swingmate reads a little high most of the time and isn't the best imo.

Do you reckon hand, wrist and forearm strength has anything to do with it? You see those dudes on the fitness golf thingie talking about "core" strength. Then they talked about how strong FatJack was in his legs. Who knows . . .