How much do you think guys like Bubba Watson (no real golf instruction) knows about the dplane/swing in general and how much does it really matter? I remember a comment made by Greg Norman that states "you need to be either really dumb or really smart to be really good at this game"! Well I know Bubba is no intellect and obviously Tiger IS, so.... how much benefit is it to a golfer who knows so much more about the desired techniques than somebody who does not, who relies predominently on feel, ability and confidence?
Bubba
- Thread starter nrggolf
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dschultz6072
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The extent of Bubba's knowledge comes from the countless number of shots he hit as a youngster just sitting in his head. He likely doesn't care to explain the mechanics behind how his shots turn out, but he certainly knows how the mechanics feel to him. The same could be said about Snead or Couples.
"You see that guy over there? He doesn't know a damn thing about hitting a golf ball...
but he does it better than everyone else."
"You see that guy over there? He doesn't know a damn thing about hitting a golf ball...
but he does it better than everyone else."
Shot Limit
New
In an episode of playing lessons with the pros on TGC, Bubba was asked how he hit the ball so far. His response was "good looks".
Richie3Jack
New
The only thing Bubba might know about D-Plane is that he *might* *think* that the clubface is responsible for the initial direction of the ball flight. Obviously, that is not correct either...although it's more correct than the path being responsible for the initial direction.
It's kinda weird from my experiences talking to Tour players about the ball flight laws. There are a lot that will tell you that the 'face is responsible for the initial direction.' That actually surprises me how many will say that because I thought they would say the path is responsible.
But when you pry a little further...they'll say that in order to draw the ball you need to rotate the forearms to turn the face over.
That's when you realize these guys don't have much of a clue. Watch Bubba play and he does the same thing.
That is a pretty good comment by Norman. Seems to be true most of the time.
3JACK
It's kinda weird from my experiences talking to Tour players about the ball flight laws. There are a lot that will tell you that the 'face is responsible for the initial direction.' That actually surprises me how many will say that because I thought they would say the path is responsible.
But when you pry a little further...they'll say that in order to draw the ball you need to rotate the forearms to turn the face over.
That's when you realize these guys don't have much of a clue. Watch Bubba play and he does the same thing.
That is a pretty good comment by Norman. Seems to be true most of the time.
3JACK
dschultz6072
New
I thought to draw the ball you have to put topspin on the ball instead of backspin. HUHUH
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
I would venture to say that Tiger isn't any better than Bubba, if Tiger really knew ball flight laws than he would have better control through the haney years and would have known swinging 5-10* inside out isn't the best thing for your game. I would see him make certain swings and be dumbfounded by the result and i was like "duh" what would you think was going to happen?
Also, i wonder if Phil M has some such trouble drawing the driver/3 wood because he really doesn't get it either.
The bottom line is that NO ONE (including us) "needs" to know, IF we can already make the ball do what we want when we want it too the majority of the time.
hp12c
New
I was reading the thread with interest and wanting to say something and after reading your post. You said exactly what I was thinking but having trouble putting into words thanks.
mgranato
New
I'm not sure why this is the default credit.
faux_maestro
New
It SHOULD have gone away after Thanksgiving 2009. Up to that point he seemed it was like he had the golden touch and seemed like one of the smartest guys around.
rogerdodger
New
Where has swing knowledge gotten us? Golf will always involve an element called talent, which also incorporates athleticism. Bubba may not know what vertical swing plane angle he has, but I think he knows how to hit a golf ball with control and far. Instructors like Brian teach better with the knowledge of d-plane, trackman... But does a player need to know the technical stuff to be good? I have had two lessons with Brian, lasting three hours in total, a year apart. The lessons were simple and easy to understand. At the end of them, he had me feeling like I was an athlete! The point is, I could not have digested the same technical information about the d plane and turned that into an athletic motion. Bubba may not know d-plane, but does he need to? He has figured out how to fade, draw, on every shot. When Manzella speaks, I listen because I get better every time he posts, puts out a video or I am lucky enough to see him for a lesson. He does the heavy lifting on the knowledge side, I am happy to take advantage of that knowledge. For a golfer, knowledge of the swing is overrated. For an instructor, it is imperative.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
You are the minority when it comes to adults taking lessons; as adults we learn differently than children and are more analytical in nature and want to know the "why." Generally children don't care as much as to the why they just want to consume and learn. This (i'm not the first one to say this) is why becoming really well at golf as an adult is very difficult simply because of how we learn.
Sidenote:
I try to get all of my willing students to understand ballflight and their own tendencies so they can fix themselves before having to call me. Then if they just can't figure it out, i'll come to the rescue
birly-shirly
New
I think this is very true - but I still think it leaves us (adults) with a choice as to how we try to learn and improve.
Personally, I don't know whether we are wired any differently to kids or if the differences are more in terms of attitude and expectations. But since they seem better at picking up new stuff - I'll try to learn like a kid. The irony is, I was one of those kids who wanted to know the whys and hows of everything.
When you consider how much BS has been spoken by instructors there can be no doubt that it has gotten us NOWHERE. Heck, even BManz has talked some nonsense in the past! No to mention some of the monkey turd spewed up by many of his colleagues.
Only now are we beginning to hear some facts that are scientifically proven and indisputable truths.
The hour of productive instruction has arrived. A few good men are out there. Make use of them and forget the myths of the dark ages of golf instruction.
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Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Im just curious as to how many Tour players you've spoken to about the ball flight laws? How do you bring this up in conversation? Do you correct them if they're wrong?
What exactly, in your opinion, is wrong with them feeling that there is forearm rotation to control the face?
faux_maestro
New
Kids are wired to learn by imitation. The ability of the brain to "rewire itself" and make new connections is the reason and that ability slowly diminishes as we get older. An example: in Columbus they have 2 alternative schools, one French and one Spanish where the students are "immersed" in the language. The teachers do 80+% of their teaching in the language and by the time these students are in 8th grade they can fool true native speakers. I started learning French in 8th grade, studied for 6 years and couldn't speak a lick of French. The biggest thing I learned about teaching elementary students how to play the violin is to model the appropriate technique and sound, don't explain it with words. Sometimes I'll teach a 30 minute lesson to 20 kids and I'll say maybe 20 words at the most.
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jenhaoyen
New
i stopped thinking about golf swings, I rather see what's going on with / where the ball is going.You are the minority when it comes to adults taking lessons; as adults we learn differently than children and are more analytical in nature and want to know the "why." Generally children don't care as much as to the why they just want to consume and learn. This (i'm not the first one to say this) is why becoming really well at golf as an adult is very difficult simply because of how we learn.
Sidenote:
I try to get all of my willing students to understand ballflight and their own tendencies so they can fix themselves before having to call me. Then if they just can't figure it out, i'll come to the rescue
Too much thinking is never good. I pretty much unlearned everything from these 2 years and just went back to where i started. With Brian's help, understanding certain things, but most of all I think golfer should just swing their natural way. Because the "ball" doesn't know.
jenhaoyen
New
but it's learned. I don't have to think about basketball techniques, i just shoot the ball. I was on the varsity basketball since I was in high school. I never thought about techniques , i only think about SWISH! I think it's ok to learn different stuff and digest, but in the end, you should be able to swing freely...your own print of the swing. Doest matter if you need flat left wrist, cock wrist, you should just stick with what you have. Maybe learn about d-plane....
magicmarker
New
I think some of these guys know more than they act like they know.
The less you know, the less questions people ask you....and the one's that do know exactly what's up probably aren't too excited to share that knowledge out of tour card insecurity.
I think (real) science and (true) physics are a performance enhancer when it comes to golfing in the long run.
The less you know, the less questions people ask you....and the one's that do know exactly what's up probably aren't too excited to share that knowledge out of tour card insecurity.
I think (real) science and (true) physics are a performance enhancer when it comes to golfing in the long run.
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