Clearing my hips
- Thread starter joep
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WannaBreak90
New
There is a large group of people who, when the discussion is religion, conclude that "You believe one way and I believe another way, but we end up in the same place." Not theologically true, but it is commonly recited. However, when it comes to a golf swing, there are people so committed to "my way or the highway" that they totally dismiss that some golfers may need a lot of conscious pivot power to propel the golf club, while others merely have to allow gravity to move the club for them. Some use a lot of hand action, others use their arms, and still others use a combination of pivot, hands, and arms.
So, you can believe your way and I will believe in my way, and we'll both end up in the fairway. How's that?
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scorekeeper
New member
ok then i stand corrected......but............here is what joep said
Brian gave me a drill where you start with the club in front of the ball and make a follow through swing where you take your body and club to about the point when the butt of the club is pointing back at the ball. From there you keep your lower body at that point and return the club behind the ball. It really gives you a feeling of where you can get your hips and shoulder at impact.
so i thought it was brian manzella....
scorekeeper
New member
you are more then welcome..............always glad to help.............the idea that you responded to my post shows it was SOMETHING...not NOTHING.............or....nah
johnnymarlboro
New
If you'll read more carefully he said "someone posted this" and then the quote you posted. It's from Brian, just not specifically for the OP.
You don't know my position, period. I'll ask what I want when I want, if you don't like it ignore it. You got guys running around giving advice on something that they don't really know about, they got a piece of the puzzle and now they think they know it all when 2weeks ago they were lost and posting up their swing asking what's wrong....gimme a break. You should change your little saying at the bottom of your posts or follow it's advice.
It doesn't matter how it's done they can still end up on their right side too long is my point, so for them trying to stay there is not the best idea, of course each to his own.
drewyallop
New
Wedgy,
You are certainly entitled to your opinion/position. But you have expressed it many times, in many ways. I think I get it. But to clear up my apparent ignorance could you enlighten us on exactly what your position is? And in what respects, if any, it contradicts the information on the release provided by Jacobs/Manzella?
Drew
I'm in complete agreement with Brian, does that make it clear enough. I just go about it my way in my swing if that's okay.
Kevin, It's interesting that you say this because I remember reading Ian Woosnam's autobiography a few years back and he said that a very common fault with tour players - and one that he struggled with - was getting on their left side too soon in the downswing. In vain did I search the pages for any clarification, but nothing. It is interesting though, isn't it, in light of the information on the release.
This seems like another example of a hyper-talented tour player trying to verbalise what the scientists, Brian and Michael are now finding through diligent research. Those lads really did know a thing or two...
Interesting I would guess most tour players wouldn't have a problem staying back too long, what about hackers trying to lift the ball in the air, that might be a different story, what do you think?
jeffy
Banned
Snead believed that first flexing and externally rotating the knees and hips, then extending and internally rotating the knees and hips were keys to power:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HzefeTswKfY?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
These moves are quite visible in Sadlowski's swing:
And in young Jack, Palmer, Cabrera, Kenny Perry, any other long hitter you want to look at:
I understand that the researchers have calculated that only 25% of the energy expended during the golf swing (the "work"), is transmitted to the clubhead. Strangely, some seem to take that to mean that 75% of the work, attributed to the pivot, isn't contributing anything. I think that is a complete misunderstanding of what this calculation represents.
The 75%/25% ratio is really a measure of the efficiency of the golf swing if viewed as a power plant. No power generator converts 100% of the expended energy into transmitted power. An awful lot of the energy is used to drive the power plant or just lost through inefficiencies. Early coal-fired power plants were very inefficient: something like only 5% of the energy generated by the burning coal made it into transmitted electricity. But ALL 100% of the coal was needed to generate that 5%.
In the golf swing, a lot of energy (75%, presumambly, since that is the percentage Brian quoted in another thread) is expended on rotating the body and moving the arms, legs and club. That energy obviously never makes it to the clubhead. But to suggest that this 75% is somehow unnecessary or superfluous is lunacy. Contracting muscles generate rotational speed and the most powerful muscles are in the hips and glutes. Without tapping into them, you're not going to use all your available energy. And whatever energy you don't use CANNOT make it to the clubhead, not even 25%.
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Snead believed that first flexing and externally rotating the knees and hips, then extending and internally rotating the knees and hips were keys to power:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HzefeTswKfY?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
These moves are quite visible is Sadlowski's swing:
And young Jack, Palmer, Cabrera, Kenny Perry, any other long hitter you want to look at:
I understand that the researchers have calculated that only 25% of the energy expended during the golf swing (the "work"), is transmitted to the clubhead. Strangely, some seem to take that to mean that 75% of the work, attributed to the pivot, isn't contributing anything. I think that is a complete misunderstanding of what this calculation represents.
The 75%/25% ratio is really a measure of the efficiency of the golf swing if viewed as a power plant. No power generator transmits 100% of the expended energy into transmitted power. An awful lot of the energy is used to to drive the power plant or just lost through inefficiencies. Early coal-fired power plants were very inefficient: something like only 5% of the energy generated by the burning coal made it into transmitted electricity. But ALL 100% of the coal was needed to generate that 5%.
In the golf swing, a lot of energy (75%, presumambly, since that is the percentage Brian quoted in another thread) is expended on rotating the body and moving the arms, legs and club. That energy obviously never makes it to the clubhead. But to suggest that this 75% is somehow unnecessary or superfluous is lunacy. Contracting muscles generate rotational speed and the most powerful muscles are in the hips and glutes. Without tapping into them, you're not going to use all your available energy. And whatever energy you don't use CANNOT make it to the clubhead, not even 25%.
Don't forget the torso's contribution.
birly-shirly
New
Wasn't there something (albeit brief) about an after-dark, drunken, smooth-soled shoe wearing, ball-hitting episode when all of a sudden, trying not to slip or fall over, he suddenly clicked to the feel of what Bob Torrance had been telling him?
jeffy
Banned
Sure, someone can slide or spin or do a bunch of things that are inefficient and drive the percentage down to 5 or 10%. I don't see many handicappers flex and extend like those above: just a bunch of restricted turns, sliding hips, crap like that. Doing "more" of that isn't going to help.
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dschultz6072
New
I am giving my position because when I asked for help about increasing club head speed all I got were answers about working on my pivot. Get your hips open this rotate your shoulders that blah blah blah. Guess what? Didn't work. I go to my pro with some retarded looking attempt at squatting into the ground and flinging my hips open and he shakes his head. I tell him I'm working on it. He tells me it's a waste of time. He has 125 mph with the driver and is built like a beanpole, so I listen. He tells me you want to feel stable with your lower body and the clubhead speed has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH LOWER BODY.
Fast forward a couple weeks later. Here I am with low-mid 150s ball speed, an average 270 total drive (couple 285s on the course, no wind no downhill no bull) and hitting bunkers I've never hit before off the tee all from WORKING ON MY HAND ACTION AND NOT TRYING TO DO ANY SORT OF SUPER FAST TURN OR JUMP OR JERK. And my pivot? I guess it looks good. It's working the way it's supposed to I would imagine, but honestly I don't give a rats ass because I am seeing the ball fly the way I want it to: STRAIGHTER AND FURTHER.
So as you can see, I have a reason to be a little more than adamant about telling people to learn how to release in their hands before looking like a goofball with their pivot. MOVE THE CLUBHEAD FAST. PERIOD. END OF STORY. YOUR HIPS/LEGS ARE NOT CONNECTED TO ANYTHING REGARDING THE CLUBHEAD. YOUR SPINE IS NOT A ROD, IT IS MANY VERTEBRAE AND IT DOES NOT ROTATE UNIFORMLY.
Whew.
Jeffy: listen at 1:20. No effort to what?
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faux_maestro
New
Yeah, I read the book (it wasn't particularly insightful, given Woosnam's 'ahem' colourful lifestyle) quite some time ago, and I vaguely remember that being the gist of it. I love when these innnately talented guys try desperately to put across what they think they're doing, and what they try to avoid. No leaps of faith here, certainly, but one can see how the work on the release, and Woosnam's little pearl of wisdom + others tend to drift the swing argument in a certain direction, wouldn't you say?
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