Clearing my hips

[jeffy]

I am giving my position because when I asked for help about increasing club head speed all I got were answers about working on my pivot. Get your hips open this rotate your shoulders that blah blah blah. Guess what? Didn't work. I go to my pro with some retarded looking attempt at squatting into the ground and flinging my hips open and he shakes his head. I tell him I'm working on it. He tells me it's a waste of time. He has 125 mph with the driver and is built like a beanpole, so I listen. He tells me you want to feel stable with your lower body and the clubhead speed has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH LOWER BODY.

Fast forward a couple weeks later. Here I am with low-mid 150s ball speed, an average 270 total drive (couple 285s on the course, no wind no downhill no bull) and hitting bunkers I've never hit before off the tee all from WORKING ON MY HAND ACTION AND NOT TRYING TO DO ANY SORT OF SUPER FAST TURN OR JUMP OR JERK. And my pivot? I guess it looks good. It's working the way it's supposed to I would imagine, but honestly I don't give a rats ass because I am seeing the ball fly the way I want it to: STRAIGHTER AND FURTHER.

So as you can see, I have a reason to be a little more than adamant about telling people to learn how to release in their hands before looking like a goofball with their pivot. MOVE THE CLUBHEAD FAST. PERIOD. END OF STORY. YOUR HIPS/LEGS ARE NOT CONNECTED TO ANYTHING REGARDING THE CLUBHEAD. YOUR SPINE IS NOT A ROD, IT IS MANY VERTEBRAE AND IT DOES NOT ROTATE UNIFORMLY.

Whew.

Jeffy: listen at 1:20. No effort to what?

Well, there is this little thing called physics, and it requires energy to propel a golf ball long distances. The what and the why of how to propel a golf ball a long distance is not in dispute, at least among the scientific crowd. The how is all that's left to debate. Do golfers of all stripes do bone stupid things that impedes getting energy into the clubhead? Well, yes, and you seem to be living proof!

The obvious conclusion is that, for some reason or another, your hands and wrists were blocking your body's energy from getting to the clubhead. I'm sincerely glad that you found a competent instructor that was able to rid you of your power robbing hand, arm and wrist motion. But your failure to use the hands, arms and wrists properly does not mean that clubhead speed has "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH LOWER BODY".

Your teacher is flat ass wrong on this assertion. Period. Energy has to come from somewhere, and the largest energy producing muscles are the hips, glutes and torso. Again, it is great that you found a way to more efficiently deliver your body's energy to the clubhead, but to believe that it has nothing to do with the most significant energy producing muscles of the body is sheer lunacy.

 

[Kevin Shields]

FW, thats why I said "a lot of people" and not "everybody". Im aware that there are multiple reasons for every fault.

 

[jeffy]

Jeffy: listen at 1:20. No effort to what?

Just looked at this video. Give me a break. Snead was perhaps the best athlete ever to swing a golf club. So he says it takes "no effort" to generate clubhead speed? How much "effort" does it take Mariano Riveria to deliver a 95mph cut fastball? Could you throw a fastball 40mph with your absolute maximum effort??? Get serious.

 

[footwedge]

FW, thats why I said "a lot of people" and not "everybody". Im aware that there are multiple reasons for every fault.[/QUOTe


That's a good thing since your an instructor. So I guess you could under use your pivot/torso?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Can't speak about what's actually happening in my swing because I've never been on a 3d machine but I consciously unwind my hips as hard as I can and generate over 120mph ch speed w/ my driver. I never do anything consciously with my hands other than hold on to the club. To say that you don't get power from rotating the hips is funny to me. The faster I turn them the farther I tend to hit the ball.

Oh, and I'm 5'8" and 155lbs.

Good for you.

To me, the reason this works for some (like you, and me at times in my career) is that if you move the hips really fast, and you are athletic enough and strong enough to use your arms to "keep up," by definition, you will increase clubhead speed.

But for most folks.....nope.

I would imagine it WILL help his ball striking.....or influence......simply because Brian gave him the drill...so Brian must have thought he needed to work on that......I have never known Brian to do something WITHOUT REASON

You and JoeP need to watch the new video, "Ideas about The Release."

I think LESS body will be more.

Have you heard of the Kinematic Sequence before?

You ever heard of INTENT.

A good sequence may be CAUSED by the intent to hit something really hard with a weight at the end of a stick.

Well, there is this little thing called physics, and it requires energy to propel a golf ball long distances....

The obvious conclusion is that, for some reason or another, your hands and wrists were blocking your body's energy from getting to the clubhead.

No chance.

No way.

....does not mean that clubhead speed has "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH LOWER BODY".

Who ever said that?

It just doesn't have ANYWHERE NEAR the amount of influence that you and somebody else must think.

Energy has to come from somewhere, and the largest energy producing muscles are the hips, glutes and torso. Again, it is great that you found a way to more efficiently deliver your body's energy to the clubhead, but to believe that it has nothing to do with the most significant energy producing muscles of the body is sheer lunacy.

Again, Jeffy.....

It is WAY LESS than what the arms, hands, wrists, and shoulder complexes have to do with it.

But, "going normal" is a BIG BIG BIG advantage of the longest hitters, and YES YES YES you need all of the hips, glutes, and testicles you can recruit.

 

[natep]

Just looked at this video. Give me a break. Snead was perhaps the best athlete ever to swing a golf club. So he says it takes "no effort" to generate clubhead speed? How much "effort" does it take Mariano Riveria to deliver a 95mph cut fastball? Could you throw a fastball 40mph with your absolute maximum effort??? Get serious.

I disagree with this statement. With good timing and good technique, you can hit the ball a damn long way with very little effort.

 

[jeffy]

I disagree with this statement. With good timing and good technique, you can hit the ball a damn long way with very little effort.

Did I say you couldn't? People hit it a "long" way sitting on chairs, on their knees, one-handed, blah, blah, blah. But to hit it the MAXIMUM distance it takes MAXIMUM energy. That's not an opinion, it's physics.

 

[footwedge]

Did I say you couldn't? People hit it a "long" way sitting on chairs, on their knees, one-handed, blah, blah, blah. But to hit it the MAXIMUM distance it takes MAXIMUM energy. That's not an opinion, it's physics.

I like the sound of that Jeffy almost like an energy drink commercial.

 

[Kevin Shields]

FW, thats why I said "a lot of people" and not "everybody". Im aware that there are multiple reasons for every fault.[/QUOTe


That's a good thing since your an instructor. So I guess you could under use your pivot/torso?

Of course you can.....or use it improperly. It would be nice if we knew who you were.

 

[footwedge]

Of course you can.....or use it improperly. It would be nice if we knew who you were.

Ask Mike F. how that works, not so good I think.

 

[jeffy]

No chance.

No way.

Do you mind explaining how you know that with such absolute certainty? Argumentation by assertion is pretty lame.

Who ever said that?

Where the hell have you been? Earlier in this thread, dschultz quoted that from his teacher and he thinks it is gospel.

It just doesn't have ANYWHERE NEAR the amount of influence that you and somebody else must think.

You have no idea how important I think it is, since we've never talked about it.

Again, Jeffy.....

It is WAY LESS than what the arms, hands, wrists, and shoulder complexes have to do with it.

Where did I say it wasn't? Why do you keep putting words in my mouth? Do I do that to you?

But, "going normal" is a BIG BIG BIG advantage of the longest hitters, and YES YES YES you need all of the hips, glutes, and testicles you can recruit.

Thank you, Mr. MOTO.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Jeffy,

How long are we going to go through all of this again?

This is a horrible thread, btw, not your fault.

 

[jeffy]

Jeffy,

How long are we going to go through all of this again?

This is a horrible thread, btw, not your fault.

Brian-

I take that as an olive branch. Accepted. You know I love you!

 

[Brian Manzella]

The only thing I have olive is a couple e of shirts, and old pair of shorts, and my skin.



Pivoting like crazy is crazy, my brotha.

 

[JKGolf]

Good for you.

To me, the reason this works for some (like you, and me at times in my career) is that if you move the hips really fast, and you are athletic enough and strong enough to use your arms to "keep up," by definition, you will increase clubhead speed.

But for most folks.....nope.

So what you're saying if I understand is "Pivoting like crazy is crazy;" unless "you are athletic enough and strong enough to use your arms to "keep up?"

 

[ej20]

I certainly understand that the lower body and hips can "out race" the shoulders and arms and this has always been the problem for Tiger for example,however the data shows that the hips for the pros are on average 30 degrees open at impact compared to 6 degrees for amateurs.Likewise,the shoulders are more open for the pros as well.

The pros may not be pivoting like "crazy" but they are pivoting a lot more than the amateurs,at least in a rotational manner.The amateurs could be using their pivots incorrectly in a goat humping fashion.How you "pivot" may also needed to be taken into consideration.

It's not just a power issue,it's biomechanically superior if you use the pro model as the yardstick.

 

[drewyallop]

I kind of took the new information on the release thread from transition down as: Pushing away from your leftward moving pivot (right handed golfer). Hips are making a move towards the target, club moving away from target. Over doing it would be bad, but I gotta think some power and flexibility from the hips would come in handy.

Definitely Jer. I've found hips have to be brought into play to get maximum power. But only after the first move away from the target.

 

[drewyallop]

I believe your post is key ds. I think a lot about what Mike and Brian are trying to achieve with this new instruction. My read: making it easier for the every day player or the beginner to achieve as powerful and efficient swing as they can given their individual limitations. Muscling the club around with the pivot obviously works for footwedge. No argument there. The question is will that technique work for most people? I believe that Manzella/Jacobs are searching for a golf swing that will work for the majority of the people that they teach. And this is what I admire about these guys. They are passionate about making us better golfers. As Brian says "all the rest is showbiz".




You know nothing about my swing,who said I was muscling the club around? Your not even close. You still have to get those arms and hands in position, how are you going to do that ? Something has to get them there they can't just jump off your shoulders and fly there by themselves. Answer this , why do people run out of right arm and have throw away?

Is it because they don't have target awarness or something else, please tell me.


How about intention before you swing what would that cause, what would it look like on video can you tell what I'm thinking before I swing and how that will affect my swing since you know it so well,tell me all about my swing.

Your right wedge. I don't know anything about your swing and I can't tell you anything about it.

I apologize and will end the conversation there.

 

[Burner]

Footwedge, a lot of people run out of right arm with throwaway because they overuse their downswing pivots and have to throw the club to catch up. Why do you think they do?

And a whole heap more run out of right arm because their pivot stalls long before impact is even in prospect.

Geez!

 

[Dariusz J.]

And a whole heap more run out of right arm because their pivot stalls long before impact is even in prospect.

Geez!

Exactly ! The main reason rear arm straightens prematurely and goes too much to the front of the rear hip is because pivot stalls and the momentum throws it away. Welcome goat humpers and crossover release.

Cheers