Clearing my hips

[Brian Manzella]

So what you're saying if I understand is "Pivoting like crazy is crazy;" unless "you are athletic enough and strong enough to use your arms to "keep up?"

No.

I'm saying that the reason UNWINDING HARD may have helped you is it made you use your arms faster then you were doing.

But not faster than you could have.

I certainly understand that the lower body and hips can "out race" the shoulders and arms and this has always been the problem for Tiger for example,however the data shows that the hips for the pros are on average 30 degrees open at impact compared to 6 degrees for amateurs.Likewise,the shoulders are more open for the pros as well.

The pros may not be pivoting like "crazy" but they are pivoting a lot more than the amateurs,at least in a rotational manner.The amateurs could be using their pivots incorrectly in a goat humping fashion.How you "pivot" may also needed to be taken into consideration.

It's not just a power issue,it's biomechanically superior if you use the pro model as the yardstick.

Stop with all the goat humping.

First, can we picture something better than a goat?

Second, EVERY GOOD PLAYER IN THE WORLD IS MASSIVELY LOSING THEIR FORWARD BEND during the final phase of the swing.

And a whole heap more run out of right arm because their pivot stalls long before impact is even in prospect.

Geez!

I see you a Geez, and raise you a YEE-GADS!

"Run out of right arm"?

Maybe they are dragging the left arm too much and can't reach without the shovel move.

 

[wulsy]

But, "going normal" is a BIG BIG BIG advantage of the longest hitters, and YES YES YES you need all of the hips, glutes, and testicles you can recruit.

Mmm. That's not the first time I've heard you need "baws" to hit it long. Do both of them need to be in front of the ball at impact, or do you need a trailing "baw" to effectively use the ground forces?

 

[Burner]

No.

I see you a Geez, and raise you a YEE-GADS!

"Run out of right arm"?

Maybe they are dragging the left arm too much and can't reach without the shovel move.

I see you a YEE-GADS and raise you a GAD-ZOOKS!

How the (whatever) can you run out of right arm if the (dragging) left arm passes impact point before the right arm straightens?

 

[footwedge]

No.

I'm saying that the reason UNWINDING HARD may have helped you is it made you use your arms faster then you were doing.

But not faster than you could have.



Stop with all the goat humping.

First, can we picture something better than a goat?

Second, EVERY GOOD PLAYER IN THE WORLD IS MASSIVELY LOSING THEIR FORWARD BEND during the final phase of the swing.




I see you a Geez, and raise you a YEE-GADS!

"Run out of right arm"?

Maybe they are dragging the left arm too much and can't reach without the shovel move.

Maybe their trying to seperate the lower left half from the upper half and they leave the upper right side behind, maybe they were taught to pivot incorrectly and now they have to fix it. Maybe they think the torso isn't part of the pivot....maybe's everywhere.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Stop with all the goat humping.

First, can we picture something better than a goat?

Second, EVERY GOOD PLAYER IN THE WORLD IS MASSIVELY LOSING THEIR FORWARD BEND during the final phase of the swing.

Oh, no. Have you seen Hogan, Knudsen etc. losing anything ??? Maybe it is because you prefer distance over accuracy, but noone of great ballstriker EVER lost tush line or goat hump. EVERY GREAT BALSTRIKER NEVER EVER LOST HIS TUSH LINE, Brian.

Cheers

 

[faux_maestro]

Stop with all the goat humping.

First, can we picture something better than a goat?

Sheep?

 

[drewyallop]

Sheep?

Faux you are a baaaaaad ass.

 

[jeffy]

Oh, no. Have you seen Hogan, Knudsen etc. losing anything ??? Maybe it is because you prefer distance over accuracy, but noone of great ballstriker EVER lost tush line or goat hump. EVERY GREAT BALSTRIKER NEVER EVER LOST HIS TUSH LINE, Brian.

Cheers

I'm with Brian on this one. Maintaining the tush line is way over-rated. If you want to be taken seriously, please post some evidence to back up your claim.

My father played with George Knudson in a pro am. I followed them around during that round, obviously, and made a point of following George for a few holes at tournaments after that. He was a short hitter, a terrible putter, and would hit nice approach shots every now and then. But he doesn't belong on any kind of ballstriking pedestal. That's just another myth. Palmer, Nicklaus, Snead: he couldn't touch them.

 

[ej20]

The problem is most don't see the shoulders as being part of the pivot.It is in fact THE most important part of the pivot as that is where the arms are connected and it's the arms that ultimately swing the club.The arms need the shoulders to move them.There is no elastic band or rope that connect the hips to the shoulders so how fast or hard you move your hips have no bearing to how fast or hard you can move your shoulders and arms.

Having said that,very good players talk about being able to fire the right side well through the ball.I believe they mean the right shoulder.You can't do that if you don't get your hips at least somewhat open.The hips probably don't contribute much to generating power but clearing them allows the right shoulder the scope to fire through the shot more freely provided they are up to the task.

The bottom line is that if you include the shoulders as being part of the pivot then yes you should pivot like crazy.Just my opinion.I don't hit the ball well at all just swinging my arms with a dead pivot and flat footed.

 

[footwedge]

The problem is most don't see the shoulders as being part of the pivot.It is in fact THE most important part of the pivot as that is where the arms are connected and it's the arms that ultimately swing the club.The arms need the shoulders to move them.There is no elastic band or rope that connect the hips to the shoulders so how fast or hard you move your hips have no bearing to how fast or hard you can move your shoulders and arms.

Having said that,very good players talk about being able to fire the right side well through the ball.I believe they mean the right shoulder.You can't do that if you don't get your hips at least somewhat open.The hips probably don't contribute much to generating power but clearing them allows the right shoulder the scope to fire through the shot more freely provided they are up to the task.

The bottom line is that if you include the shoulders as being part of the pivot then yes you should pivot like crazy.Just my opinion.I don't hit the ball well at all just swinging my arms with a dead pivot and flat footed.

TA DA!

 

[jeffy]

Oh, no. Have you seen Hogan, Knudsen etc. losing anything ??? Maybe it is because you prefer distance over accuracy, but noone of great ballstriker EVER lost tush line or goat hump. EVERY GREAT BALSTRIKER NEVER EVER LOST HIS TUSH LINE, Brian.

Cheers

I'm with Brian on this one. Maintaining the tush line is way over-rated. If you want to be taken seriously, please post some evidence to back up your claim.

My father played with George Knudson in a pro am. I followed them around during that round, obviously, and made a point of following George for a few holes at tournaments after that. He was a short hitter, a terrible putter, and would hit nice approach shots every now and then. But he doesn't belong on any kind of ballstriking pedestal. That's just another myth. Palmer, Nicklaus, Snead: he couldn't touch them.

 

[ej20]

Humping the goat is a terrible term to use but it gets the point across.If you use words like early extension or lumbar lordosis,most people will say "WHAT"???

 

[Dariusz J.]

I'm with Brian on this one. Maintaining the tush line is way over-rated. If you want to be taken seriously, please post some evidence to back up your claim.

My father played with George Knudson in a pro am. I followed them around during that round, obviously, and made a point of following George for a few holes at tournaments after that. He was a short hitter, a terrible putter, and would hit nice approach shots every now and then. But he doesn't belong on any kind of ballstriking pedestal. That's just another myth. Palmer, Nicklaus, Snead: he couldn't touch them.

You're joking, aren't you ? Asslicking has its limits. Knudson treated this way...and what he hell Snead is doing here ? Snead's the best player of all times who was in his late 50-ies when Knudson was winning; the very Nicklaus said he had a million $ swing...what the hell are you talking about ?

 

[ej20]

I'm with Brian on this one. Maintaining the tush line is way over-rated. If you want to be taken seriously, please post some evidence to back up your claim.

My father played with George Knudson in a pro am. I followed them around during that round, obviously, and made a point of following George for a few holes at tournaments after that. He was a short hitter, a terrible putter, and would hit nice approach shots every now and then. But he doesn't belong on any kind of ballstriking pedestal. That's just another myth. Palmer, Nicklaus, Snead: he couldn't touch them.

That all depends on how much you lose the tushline.I think a lot people get carried away with it and they end up clinically depressed if they see their tush coming off the line by even a centimeter.

There are people who come off it by six inches or more and that becomes a problem.

 

[Dariusz J.]

I'm with Brian on this one. Maintaining the tush line is way over-rated. If you want to be taken seriously, please post some evidence to back up your claim.

No, you put evidence - a player who's claimed to be a top ballstriker who couldn't keep his tush line. Want play a game ? so start it smartass.

Cheers

 

[birly-shirly]

If it's not way over-rated, I think it at least confuses cause with effect.

Maybe not you Dariusz - but I assume that most people who fetishise a "steady tush line" think that it's physically a simple(r) matter to turn around a steady spine angle. But that's nonsense, isn't it? You only maintain a steady tush line by constantly moving through spine flexion, extension and side bend.

Then there's the amount of vertical movement ("run up and jump" or "compression into the ground" depending on who you're listening to) that rarely really gets much attention in pop instruction, next to the supposed virtues of a steady head or neck.

And address isn't the same as impact. And the club doesn't necessarily return to its original lie angle.

So what's the magic of a steady tush line?

 

[footwedge]

I'm with Brian on this one. Maintaining the tush line is way over-rated. If you want to be taken seriously, please post some evidence to back up your claim.

My father played with George Knudson in a pro am. I followed them around during that round, obviously, and made a point of following George for a few holes at tournaments after that. He was a short hitter, a terrible putter, and would hit nice approach shots every now and then. But he doesn't belong on any kind of ballstriking pedestal. That's just another myth. Palmer, Nicklaus, Snead: he couldn't touch them.

Your wrong about that, very very wrong. Knudson was a terrific ballstriker,a pro-am and you followed him for a few holes and that's how you come to this conclusion? Not much of a basis for that kind of assessment. But then again your obsessed with distance...lol.

 

[natep]

 

[Dariusz J.]

If it's not way over-rated, I think it at least confuses cause with effect.

Maybe not you Dariusz - but I assume that most people who fetishise a "steady tush line" think that it's physically a simple(r) matter to turn around a steady spine angle. But that's nonsense, isn't it? You only maintain a steady tush line by constantly moving through spine flexion, extension and side bend.

Then there's the amount of vertical movement ("run up and jump" or "compression into the ground" depending on who you're listening to) that rarely really gets much attention in pop instruction, next to the supposed virtues of a steady head or neck.

And address isn't the same as impact. And the club doesn't necessarily return to its original lie angle.

So what's the magic of a steady tush line?

Golfers who suffer against losing the tush line problem lack the correct pelvis area CoG shift. People are bipedals, thus, the hips (with 2 independent joints) are not just rotating having constantly the axis of rotation in the middle. The motion is always a combination of linear and rotary elements - the linear one is necessary to shift the CoG onto the vertical axis coming practically through the lead hip joint while the rotary one happens because golfers unwind the torques they built during the backswing phase.
Moreover, losing the tush line is just a sign that the balance in the coronal plane is not well maintained.

Cheers

P.S. Still waiting for an example of a great ballstriker that was/is plagued with this symptom. For me it is very crucial argument since if all great ballstrikers share something in common it must be simply important.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Didnt Nicklaus lose his line? He was a spectacular ball striker.