Clearing my hips

[birly-shirly]

I might accept the implication that our anatomy forces a lateral shift in CoG plus rotation. But I don't see how that dictates anything about maintaining the tush line. If anything, I'm struck by what seems like a contradiction - that it's OK, in fact mandatory, for the spine to shift in one direction, but apparently not in another.

I don't think anyone is going to rush to meet your challenge to name a great ballstriker. We've been round that block a hundred times. You infamously have your list of "approved" ballstrikers. I'm sure people draw their own conclusions from who's on your list, and more importantly, who's not. Not to mention the circularity of the argument. I see no earthly benefit in getting into that again, and I suspect others feel the same.

 

[birly-shirly]

Doh! Kevin - don't mention Nicklaus!

[Duck and cover]

 

[Kevin Shields]

I wasnt thinking....I forgot how Nicklaus watched Hogan , not the other way around. Even though all young players watch older players......

Nevermind

 

[Brian Manzella]

Oh, no. Have you seen Hogan, Knudsen etc. losing anything ??? Maybe it is because you prefer distance over accuracy, but noone of great ballstriker EVER lost tush line or goat hump. EVERY GREAT BALSTRIKER NEVER EVER LOST HIS TUSH LINE, Brian.

Cheers

What in the hell does TUSH LINE have to do with forward bend?

You think golfers stay facing the ball?

The problem is most don't see the shoulders as being part of the pivot.It is in fact THE most important part of the pivot as that is where the arms are connected and it's the arms that ultimately swing the club.

EJ,

The way most folks talk about the shoulders, you'd think there was NO SHRUGGING, No forward or backward. Etc.

ALL OF THIS has a LOT to do with hitting golf ball efficiently.

Humping the goat is a terrible term to use but it gets the point across.If you use words like early extension or lumbar lordosis,most people will say "WHAT"???

If my "zipper' is facing a point 20 yards right of target at impact, and a pretty girl (I refuse to use a goat) is standing dead face on to me, don't my "humping" miss the girl?

No, you put evidence - a player who's claimed to be a top ballstriker who couldn't keep his tush line. Want play a game ?

Read post above.

If it's not way over-rated, I think it at least confuses cause with effect.

Maybe not you Dariusz - but I assume that most people who fetishise a "steady tush line" think that it's physically a simple(r) matter to turn around a steady spine angle. But that's nonsense, isn't it? You only maintain a steady tush line by constantly moving through spine flexion, extension and side bend.

Ta-DA!!!!

Exactly!! Birly.

Then there's the amount of vertical movement ("run up and jump" or "compression into the ground" depending on who you're listening to) that rarely really gets much attention in pop instruction, next to the supposed virtues of a steady head or neck.

And address isn't the same as impact. And the club doesn't necessarily return to its original lie angle.

So what's the magic of a steady tush line?

Yeah you right.

Doh! Kevin - don't mention Nicklaus!

[Duck and cover]

I saw Knuson in person, and he hit it great.

But, NICK-loss was in another league.

So was Byron Nelson, Johnny Miller, Orville Moody, Miller Barber, and Calvin Peete.

 

[Dariusz J.]

I might accept the implication that our anatomy forces a lateral shift in CoG plus rotation. But I don't see how that dictates anything about maintaining the tush line. If anything, I'm struck by what seems like a contradiction - that it's OK, in fact mandatory, for the spine to shift in one direction, but apparently not in another.

Explain me, please, where you see a contradiction here and why.

You infamously have your list of "approved" ballstrikers. I'm sure people draw their own conclusions from who's on your list, and more importantly, who's not. Not to mention the circularity of the argument. I see no earthly benefit in getting into that again, and I suspect others feel the same.

Nope. The "infamous" list was sort of created by colleagues of these who are on the list. It means the list was created by the most competent persons to do so. I cannot find a better argument to enhance anyone to follow the list.

I wasnt thinking....I forgot how Nicklaus watched Hogan , not the other way around. Even though all young players watch older players......

Nevermind

Actually, Nicklaus did not lose his tush line at all when he was younger. Later, he started to lose a bit (beginnings of his back problems ?) but still maintained it pretty well. Like e.g. here:

Jack Nicklaus explains how he fades the ball - YouTube

What in the hell does TUSH LINE have to do with forward bend?

You think golfers stay facing the ball?

Isn't losing a forward bend equal to losing the tush line ? Or did I understand "forward bend" wrongly ?

I saw Knuson in person, and he hit it great.

But, NICK-loss was in another league.

So was Byron Nelson, Johnny Miller, Orville Moody, Miller Barber, and Calvin Peete.

So wonder why Nicklaus was so enamoured in Knudson's swing motion then and not with the others you mentioned.

Cheers

 

[Jwat]

What in the hell does TUSH LINE have to do with forward bend?

You think golfers stay facing the ball?



EJ,

The way most folks talk about the shoulders, you'd think there was NO SHRUGGING, No forward or backward. Etc.

ALL OF THIS has a LOT to do with hitting golf ball

Okay I know I am saying something that is a FEEL, but for me the right shoulder shrugging on the back swing feels like a direct coorelation to losing my tush line in the transition. Of course every time I have had a lesson with bmanz and I complain about the early extension, he never addresses it and goes straight to hand path. The one time I was really early extending we hit balls on the great wall of china in the bunker.

I am still obsessed with somewhat keeping my tush line only because I lose at least 6in where I would be happy with losing only 2. Hopefully we may get a video response on the tush line for all of us who can't take a hint.

 

[EF426]

I spent some time with an instructor who thought the tush line was the most important thing in the swing. He would draw lines on the screen and I would practice swinging while staying right on those lines. Eventually it took the fun away from golf because I just couldn't seem to do it.

To my uneducated eye it looks like most great players do keep the tush line but somehow I doubt they spent time practicing it with a line on the screen.

Anyway, here are a few that don't. I'm sure it's been discussed before but maybe another look will help me learn something.

 

[footwedge]

I spent some time with an instructor who thought the tush line was the most important thing in the swing. He would draw lines on the screen and I would practice swinging while staying right on those lines. Eventually it took the fun away from golf because I just couldn't seem to do it.

To my uneducated eye it looks like most great players do keep the tush line but somehow I doubt they spent time practicing it with a line on the screen.

Anyway, here are a few that don't. I'm sure it's been discussed before but maybe another look will help me learn something.

Interesting what it(humping) does to the clubface in those vid's. Maybe there is no "the" tush line just an arbritary line someone decided to draw on a screen that changes according to what golfer you look at,( wonder which golfer was the "model"), personally I would use J. LO. , TA DA! and some have larger tushes than others wonder how that affects things...lol.

 

[birly-shirly]

Explain me, please, where you see a contradiction here and why.

The seeming contradiction is that you're making a fundamental of keeping the spine in one alignment from one perspective (DTL), but equally of moving it from another (FO or reverse view). I'm not going so far as to say that you NEED to lose the tush line. But once you accept that lateral movement of the spine isn't fatal to good ballstriking - I just can't see it being the end of the world if you see some movement from DTL.

I cannot find a better argument to enhance anyone to follow the list.

I can agree with that. You cannot and you have not.

 

[bryan@nobackswing.com]

i've been working on this a lot, i've always had a tendency to bend and slide my front knee forward. it's amazing how much that front hip seems to change the mechanics of the swing. right now my swing thought is to get that front knee moving left and back.

 

[Dariusz J.]

The seeming contradiction is that you're making a fundamental of keeping the spine in one alignment from one perspective (DTL), but equally of moving it from another (FO or reverse view). I'm not going so far as to say that you NEED to lose the tush line. But once you accept that lateral movement of the spine isn't fatal to good ballstriking - I just can't see it being the end of the world if you see some movement from DTL.

The problem is (although I understand now your way of thinking) that the targetwise shift on East-West line is indispensable because we're bipeds and the target is located left. There is no need for any shifts in the North-South direction though.

Cheers

 

[jeffy]

You're joking, aren't you ? Asslicking has its limits. Knudson treated this way...and what he hell Snead is doing here ? Snead's the best player of all times who was in his late 50-ies when Knudson was winning; the very Nicklaus said he had a million $ swing...what the hell are you talking about ?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Nicklaus was just being nice. Jack also said nice things about Gardner Dickinson: "watching Gardner hit short irons was something special". Is Gardner on your list of great ballstrikers?

My father also played a pro am round with Gay Brewer, 1967 Masters champion. I'd take Gay over Knudson easily. And Jack had nice things to say about Gay's game when he died. Look it up. Have you even heard of Brewer?

George won eight events from 1961 to 1972, and none were significant events, let alone majors. In 1974, Snead, at 62, outplayed the 36 year old Knudson in the majors. Sam finished 20th at the Masters (which I attended that year) and Knudson did not even qualify. Sam placed 3rd at the PGA, where, again, Knudson did not qualify. Snead had to withdraw from the US Open at Winged Foot because of a rib injury. I watched George a bit there and was disappointed. He finished 51st, his last major at age 36.

Sure, George was a consistent ballstriker, but every shot was a draw and when I asked him how far he hit his driver he said 230. He was quite clearly not in the league of Weiskopf, Johnny Miller, Nicklaus, Palmer, Trevino, Player, Ray Floyd, or even Billy Casper.

And, me, asslicking Brian? Dariusz, step away from the vodka.

 

[jeffy]

I wasnt thinking....I forgot how Nicklaus watched Hogan , not the other way around.

Not true. Deane Beman followed Nicklaus and Hogan during the final 36 at Cherry Hills in the 1960 US Open and said that Hogan was captivated by the 20 year-old Nicklaus. Beman said he never saw Hogan pay the slightest attention to another player until that day, and that the expression on Hogan's face said that he was watching something truly special. He was right, of course.

 

[jeffy]

No, you put evidence - a player who's claimed to be a top ballstriker who couldn't keep his tush line. Want play a game ? so start it smartass.

Cheers

Ooops, others beat me to it.

 

[jeffy]

Your wrong about that, very very wrong. Knudson was a terrific ballstriker,a pro-am and you followed him for a few holes and that's how you come to this conclusion? Not much of a basis for that kind of assessment. But then again your obsessed with distance...lol.

Don't be ridiculous. I followed George inside the ropes for 18 holes that day and pretty regularly for the rest of the tournament. I also followed him subsequent years at the Greater Hartford Open as well as at the 1974 US Open at Winged Foot. I thought he was uber-cool and liked it that we both played the same set of irons (Spalding Elites). However, George just wasn't what all we hoped he would be. I put him in the Chi Chi Rodriguez class (who my father also played with in a GHO pro am): good but not great. Second tier.

 

[jeffy]

the very Nicklaus said he had a million $ swing...what the hell are you talking about ?

I looked that up. Nicklaus said that Knudson had a "million dollar swing and a 10 cent putting stroke". I think Jack was trying to tell George to work on his putting.

 

[natep]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Nicklaus was just being nice. Jack also said nice things about Gardner Dickinson: "watching Gardner hit short irons was something special". Is Gardner on your list of great ballstrikers?

My father also played a pro am round with Gay Brewer, 1967 Masters champion. I'd take Gay over Knudson easily. And Jack had nice things to say about Gay's game when he died. Look it up. Have you even heard of Brewer?

George won eight events from 1961 to 1972, and none were significant events, let alone majors. In 1974, Snead, at 62, outplayed the 36 year old Knudson in the majors. Sam finished 20th at the Masters (which I attended that year) and Knudson did not even qualify. Sam placed 3rd at the PGA, where, again, Knudson did not qualify. Snead had to withdraw from the US Open at Winged Foot because of a rib injury. I watched George a bit there and was disappointed. He finished 51st, his last major at age 36.

Sure, George was a consistent ballstriker, but every shot was a draw and when I asked him how far he hit his driver he said 230. He was quite clearly not in the league of Weiskopf, Johnny Miller, Nicklaus, Palmer, Trevino, Player, Ray Floyd, or even Billy Casper.

And, me, asslicking Brian? Dariusz, step away from the vodka.

Good ballstriking does not in itself = winning tour events. Its pretty well known that he was a terrible putter. I never saw Knudson play in person, but in that video he drives the ball 240-270 and hits it right at the flag on every hole, shooting 67 with three 3-putts.

 

[footwedge]

I looked that up. Nicklaus said that Knudson had a "million dollar swing and a 10 cent putting stroke". I think Jack was trying to tell George to work on his putting.

Don't be ridiculous, you have no idea what Jack was "trying" to tell George, your guessing. Did I mention George is from my hometown he played at St. Charles C.C. when he was a junior, he won our national junior championship in 1955. He left in 1958 I think, and went to T.O. I saw him play lot's of times, waaaay more than you or your dad combined. I totally disagree with your opinion, it's ridiculous, totally ridiculous. Lay off the sauce, your ridiculous when you drink.



http://youtu.be/6toafC7Um5k

Read the comments below the video by someone that really knows.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Yeah, apparently he hit it great, but that guy with the old "nobody hits it like that today" nonsense almost makes him sound insane.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

While playing golf yesterday, I channeled both Nick-loss and Knudson. I hit really good shots as both. I was a little longer as Jack and I seemed to be a better short iron player as George. In both cases, as I was each player, I felt like I wished I could be Andy North.