Clearing my hips

[Dariusz J.]

At Carnoustie - Hogan was a stroke per round better than a group that included an amateur, a young Peter Thomson who had yet to win in either Europe or the US, and a talented welshman who most people will probably not have heard of. I'm no fanboy for Rose, but I don't see any reason for thinking he wouldn't be a stronger candidate than that group. Do you think Jack Fleck was a better golfer than Rose, or indeed anyone in the current top 10?

Look, I take nothing away from anyone who beats the field. You could learn from that.

You know, I expected a straight answer expressed in a digit. Straight answer as I made to your question when you wanted me to quote 5 names. Obviously, your agenda excludes the possibility of answering straightly.

BTW, FYI there was another amateur there, Stranahan, with a great swing who whooped asses of many pros these days. Don't say it aloud here on this board, but he would beat such Roses in each majors they both start. Who the hell is Rose anyway and why do we speak about him ???

Cheers

 

[Jared Willerson]

Give todays guys a week to practice with the older equipment and it is no contest. I take absolutely nothing away from those guys in the past, I just really do not see how anyone can see that the average pro today is a much better ball striker, putter and better player from 100 and in than just about everyone in the past. Some may have been better in certain areas of the game, but todays players are much more well rounded. Frankly, I think most amateurs could probably learn the most from the guys in the past because the old school pros were more like us anyway,working stiffs (in a pro shop somewhere) that learned to play golf their way.

I absolutely love the old school, did it their way swings. I have everyone of the ballstrikers mentioned here favorited on youtube and I watch them a lot. I just simply think the guys today are freakishly good.

Also, if these guys HAD to hit fairways today...they could.

I once asked a MLB scout how hard Greg Maddux threw. He said 93. I said no way every time I see him on tv he barely touches 87. The scout told me he only threw as hard as he needed to but could get it up there when needed.

I say that to say that these guys would learn to hit more fairways if they had to. Really all they are trying to do is keep it between the ditches, distance matters that much these days.

 

[Jared Willerson]

I brought up Rose because he is just an example of an upper tier "good" professional player. I am not a fanboy by any means, his name just popped in my head.

 

[Kevin Shields]

LOL. You should get to know how one VJ and one Ernie had a big ass-whooping in a foursome against amateurs with an old equipment. The longest drive of them (Els and Singh) both combined was under 200 yards. So much for today's "technique".

Cheers

Is there a link to anything I can read about this match?

 

[footwedge]

Give todays guys a week to practice with the older equipment and it is no contest. I take absolutely nothing away from those guys in the past, I just really do not see how anyone can see that the average pro today is a much better ball striker, putter and better player from 100 and in than just about everyone in the past. Some may have been better in certain areas of the game, but todays players are much more well rounded. Frankly, I think most amateurs could probably learn the most from the guys in the past because the old school pros were more like us anyway,working stiffs (in a pro shop somewhere) that learned to play golf their way.

I absolutely love the old school, did it their way swings. I have everyone of the ballstrikers mentioned here favorited on youtube and I watch them a lot. I just simply think the guys today are freakishly good.

Also, if these guys HAD to hit fairways today...they could.

I once asked a MLB scout how hard Greg Maddux threw. He said 93. I said no way every time I see him on tv he barely touches 87. The scout told me he only threw as hard as he needed to but could get it up there when needed.

I say that to say that these guys would learn to hit more fairways if they had to. Really all they are trying to do is keep it between the ditches, distance matters that much these days.

I guess we'll never know, but Rose should be glad he's in this era.

 

[Kevin Shields]

You know, I expected a straight answer expressed in a digit. Straight answer as I made to your question when you wanted me to quote 5 names. Obviously, your agenda excludes the possibility of answering straightly.

BTW, FYI there was another amateur there, Stranahan, with a great swing who whooped asses of many pros these days. Don't say it aloud here on this board, but he would beat such Roses in each majors they both start. Who the hell is Rose anyway and why do we speak about him ???

Cheers

Im sorry but how could you possibly say that an amateur could whoop up on any Tour pro today. Do you honestly believe that?? Im almost afraid of the answer.

 

[JEREMY5577]

Is there a link to anything I can read about this match?

Alfred Dunhill Links Championship - Hickory Challenge

 

[birly-shirly]

Seriously Dariusz - "my agenda"??? What would that be then?

I answered your question as best I could. Don't act like I owe you because you came up with 5 names from a period of 30 years.

I think your question is ludicrous. I'm not interested in re-writing history, and I think that the only way to judge a player is on their record against the field. So Hogan had an amazing year in 1953. And Justin Rose, with half a dozen wins on the european and us tours, easily deserves as much respect as, say, a Jack Fleck - who matched Hogan over 4 rounds and took him on a playoff.

You talk like everything in golf is a function of full-swing technique - instead of a mix of skills, shortgame, fitness, judgement, attitude, and maybe a mix of technique and luck thrown in. I'm certain that Hogan understood this perfectly - and I think it's ironic that you idolise him but miss the point so completely.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Alfred Dunhill Links Championship - Hickory Challenge

OMG, I just read this. Its friggin hilarious that this is considered an indictment of the skill level of the modern player. Hey, lets play a handicapped event with antique equipment that we've never played with. Nobody but the truly desperate would consider this a serious test of skill. ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!

Anybody who thinks todays players suck should sit on a 200 yard par 3 at any tour event and watch all day. 1 shot penalty bunker right, pin cut 4 paces off the front right fringe. You would see shots land pin high left 10-20 feet all day long. Ill never understand the modern player bashing. I can dig if you dont like the attitudes of todays NFL players or whatever, but doubting todays athletes skill level is just plain weird.

 

[birly-shirly]

Maybe that was a different hickory challenge to the one that Dariusz is thinking of.

After all, Dariusz says that VJ and Ernie were beaten by amateurs with old equipment. Whereas that link to the Dunhill Links event clearly states that only the pros used hickories, and the amateurs used modern clubs.

It wouldn't be like Dariusz to let the facts get in the way of a good story.

 

[ej20]

C'mon quit picking on Dariusz everybody has their favorite players, he's talking ballstriking, not ballstriking stats. Some of those opinions from old farts are from Nicklaus, who better to compare the guys now to then Hogan and Trevino and Nicklaus, oh and one day all the young guys on tour now will be old farts talking about their stats and accomplishments. You might be one of them if your lucky.

How do you define ballstriking?I could say Tiger is a better ballstriker than Hogan because he could hit shots nobody else could even if his stats were not great.

Dariusz keeps harking on about how Hogan could hit every fairway and 18 GIRs.That would mean his great ballstriker should also have great stats also.His biokinetic theory is about repeatability,not creativity.I am just going by his idea of a great ballstriker.

 

[wulsy]

OMG, I just read this. Its friggin hilarious that this is considered an indictment of the skill level of the modern player. Hey, lets play a handicapped event with antique equipment that we've never played with. Nobody but the truly desperate would consider this a serious test of skill. ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!

Anybody who thinks todays players suck should sit on a 200 yard par 3 at any tour event and watch all day. 1 shot penalty bunker right, pin cut 4 paces off the front right fringe. You would see shots land pin high left 10-20 feet all day long. Ill never understand the modern player bashing. I can dig if you dont like the attitudes of todays NFL players or whatever, but doubting todays athletes skill level is just plain weird.

You're right there IMHO.

Most people have NO CLUE how good guys are that can't get on tour, nevermind those that are making a living out there. Heck, I'm sh&t hot at this game and I wouldn't make a cent on a second level tour. Would be able to make a tidy loss on the 3rd level tours, just enough to keep me going for a few years until I was stoney broke.

But I don't really care, cos I've hit shots that 99.999999% of golfers can only dream of, and that's something worth more than money (unless ya don't have any).

 

[footwedge]

How do you define ballstriking?I could say Tiger is a better ballstriker than Hogan because he could hit shots nobody else could even if his stats were not great.

Dariusz keeps harking on about how Hogan could hit every fairway and 18 GIRs.That would mean his great ballstriker should also have great stats also.His biokinetic theory is about repeatability,not creativity.I am just going by his idea of a great ballstriker.

I guess that's the thing different people have different criteria. Hogan probably would have had great stats if they had them in that era.
Okay you can pick on him again...lol.

 

[footwedge]

You're right there IMHO.

Most people have NO CLUE how good guys are that can't get on tour, nevermind those that are making a living out there. Heck, I'm sh&t hot at this game and I wouldn't make a cent on a second level tour. Would be able to make a tidy loss on the 3rd level tours, just enough to keep me going for a few years until I was stoney broke.

But I don't really care, cos I've hit shots that 99.999999% of golfers can only dream of, and that's something worth more than money (unless ya don't have any).

Carly Simon - Nobody Does It Better - YouTube

http://youtu.be/Z5NfouRh2cY

 

[ej20]

I guess that's the thing different people have different criteria. Hogan probably would have had great stats if they had them in that era.
Okay you can pick on him again...lol.

I might have to take a number and get back in the line.lol

I have no doubt Hogan would have posted up wonderful stats but my point with Trevino was that unless you actually do have stats,things could get blown out of proportion by fanboys.

Of the 5 or 6 years they had stats on Trevino,his best ballstriking year was 1980 where he was third.Pretty good but he hit 72% fairways and 70% GIRs.Not much different to the best ballstrikers of today.

You could have sworn Trevino with his ballstriking legend that he would have incredible stats like 90% fairways and 90% GIRs.

 

[dbl]

Anybody who thinks todays players suck should sit on a 200 yard par 3 at any tour event and watch all day. 1 shot penalty bunker right, pin cut 4 paces off the front right fringe. You would see shots land pin high left 10-20 feet all day long. Ill never understand the modern player bashing.

Not to add or subtract too much from either era, BUT in my neck of the woods, one of the best places in golf is the 4th tee at Riviera when the PGA Tour is there, watching as the pros hit towering high 2I, hybrids and fairway woods etc at the 238 yard par 3 - a hole that Hogan said was the best in golf.

 

[dschultz6072]

You're right there IMHO.

Most people have NO CLUE how good guys are that can't get on tour, nevermind those that are making a living out there. Heck, I'm sh&t hot at this game and I wouldn't make a cent on a second level tour. Would be able to make a tidy loss on the 3rd level tours, just enough to keep me going for a few years until I was stoney broke.

But I don't really care, cos I've hit shots that 99.999999% of golfers can only dream of, and that's something worth more than money (unless ya don't have any).

Very true. Most of the guys I play with are ex and present college players or just people playing off plus handicap forever and some of the shots they can perform are just unreal. That being said, their occasional sub 70 round at my home course (7000 yards) is nothing to them. You ask them why they aren't on tour and their answer is always the same... "I'm not good enough." It blows my mind.

 

[ej20]

How consistently sound your game is under pressure is also a consideration to playing professionally.You could be capable of shooting a 66 on a good day but it just takes one bad round to miss a cut.Numerous guys on tour that are capable of four sub 70 rounds.

There are probably thousands of good amateur players that can hit it better than Corey Pavin but wouldn't make a living on tour if they had the chance to play.

 

[footwedge]

I might have to take a number and get back in the line.lol

I have no doubt Hogan would have posted up wonderful stats but my point with Trevino was that unless you actually do have stats,things could get blown out of proportion by fanboys.

Of the 5 or 6 years they had stats on Trevino,his best ballstriking year was 1980 where he was third.Pretty good but he hit 72% fairways and 70% GIRs.Not much different to the best ballstrikers of today.


You could have sworn Trevino with his ballstriking legend that he would have incredible stats like 90% fairways and 90% GIRs.

Who has 90% of greens and 90% of fairways today or anytime for that matter in the history of golf in a season? Anyways I have my opinion and others have theirs so I'll leave it at that. Go and pick on Dariusz , I think they called your number...lol.

 

[wulsy]

Carly Simon - Nobody Does It Better - YouTube

Carly Simon

ThankS! I'm a helluva guy!

Muse - Feeling Good Live Wembley - YouTube