D-plane
- Thread starter mandrin
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tongzilla
New
nice visual mandrin. One of the few diagrams from you I could actually understand without trying too hard. Are your explanations improving or am I getting smarter?
strataboy-Gary Ho
New member
Great visual, thanks!!
I dont know if this has been covered before, but:
1.) Why is the initial ball trajectory (OB) lie BELOW the clubface normal vector (OA)?
2.) How do you determine how much below is (OB)?
THanks!!
I dont know if this has been covered before, but:
1.) Why is the initial ball trajectory (OB) lie BELOW the clubface normal vector (OA)?
2.) How do you determine how much below is (OB)?
THanks!!
mandrin
New
tongzilla,Nice visual mandrin.
One of the few diagrams from you I could actually understand without trying too hard. Are your explanations improving or am I getting smarter?
Thanks for the compliment. I do appreciate.
It is all part of a subtle and gradual incubation process.
There are also various subliminal techniques employed smartly hidden away in it all which makes you feel you are getting smarter as you are gradually getting familiar with my prose and ideas. 
mandrin
New
stratatboy, some good questions.
1) Why is the initial ball trajectory (OB) lie BELOW the clubface normal vector (OA)?
For a perfect elastic ball and a very heavy frictionless clubhead vectors OA and OB coincide. For the actual non ideal case OB is slightly underneath the normal OA.
2.) How do you determine how much below is (OB)?
Rather complex theory behind it all. However, generally, for driver, vector OB is closer to the normal OA than for higher lofted clubs.
mandrin
New
Brian,
Seeing the lack of interest of your 8687 members in the subject of D-plane which is an essential element of your signature it seems that you have to do a serious effort in marketing your concepts. Seemingly if you advance anything requiring some mental effort it seems to rebuke most people.
Seeing the lack of interest of your 8687 members in the subject of D-plane which is an essential element of your signature it seems that you have to do a serious effort in marketing your concepts. Seemingly if you advance anything requiring some mental effort it seems to rebuke most people.
Personally, I think the d-plane is great for understanding basic ball flight laws as they pertain to the ball's initial trajectory. After that? I mean, there isn't much to discuss. The reason why other golf subjects lend themselves to great and heated discussion is that so many of them can be subjective. There isn't anything subjective about d-plane, from what I can tell. There aren't too many strong counters to the d-plane concept to fuel a lively debate or discussion. If I'm wrong, let me know, because I want to learn as much as I can to improve my game.
mandrin
New
Bigwill,
I am fairly sure that very few on this forum were even aware of the existence of this concept. Your post however seems to suggest somehow that the D-plane concept is common factual knowledge and hence not really worth spending much time on discussing.
If that is the case tell me where did you see it seriously discussed before in any way or form? Brian puzzled many by alluding to it strongly as being essential without really going into explaining the concept. Don't you feel that if he makes it an essential part of his credo it might have perhaps some real practical significance?
I see people spending a surprising amount of effort discussing food and diet on a golf forum but lacking interest in the real golf stuff when it is not somehow related to a free quick tips they can rush out to the driving range to try out, yet again hoping for another instantaneous miracle.
thefuture37
Banned
I have yet to see anyone comment on how the D-plane is practically useful for the average player. Can someone give an example of this? Like maybe you hit an errant shot and think that one aspect of the D-plane was wrong for the shot you were trying to hit. Or, how it is possible to monitor the different parts of the d-plane as you play.
tourdeep
New
Brian,
Seeing the lack of interest of your 8687 members in the subject of D-plane which is an essential element of your signature it seems that you have to do a serious effort in marketing your concepts. Seemingly if you advance anything requiring some mental effort it seems to rebuke most people.
perhaps it is you who is finally getting what is important. The scientific stuff is for the minority of the minority of golfers and will always be. The rest lack an interest becasue they simply don't give a damn.
Having said that, scientific information is essential for the betterment of the minority who can then translate it to the rest of the minority and then finally to those who think they don't care about that stuff, but get it in a way they can understand.
mandrin
New
Is Brian than all wrong with below?
“Use your Pivot to snap your Kinetic Chain, and to assist your arms, hands and club with creating the proper "D" Plane for the selected shot.
Everything else is show biz“
mandrin
New
If your opinion if shared by most it is just another very clear signal that the decline of an empire is definitely on its way. Matters of importance are inspired by the mind not by muscles.
thefuture37
Banned
Is Brian than all wrong with below?
“Use your Pivot to snap your Kinetic Chain, and to assist your arms, hands and club with creating the proper "D" Plane for the selected shot.
Everything else is show biz“
All I asked for was for someone to say how to use this d-plane idea. Brian's quote is just his definition of what a golf swing should accomplish. It doesn't say how to get there. You know that though. For all your deep understanding of the physics of golf and the d-plane, you just don't have an answer to my question. So whats the point?
Bigwill,
I am fairly sure that very few on this forum were even aware of the existence of this concept. Your post however seems to suggest somehow that the D-plane concept is common factual knowledge and hence not really worth spending much time on discussing.
No, I'm not saying that. You read way too much into my post. I don't know how you arrived at that conclusion.
If that is the case tell me where did you see it seriously discussed before in any way or form?
Nowhere. Furthest thing from my mind. I think you misunderstood my post.
Brian puzzled many by alluding to it strongly as being essential without really going into explaining the concept. Don't you feel that if he makes it an essential part of his credo it might have perhaps some real practical significance? Sure.
I see people spending a surprising amount of effort discussing food and diet on a golf forum but lacking interest in the real golf stuff when it is not somehow related to a free quick tips they can rush out to the driving range to try out, yet again hoping for another instantaneous miracle.
Well, people have other interests besides golf
I think people just want to play better golf. Just because because they don't show a great interest in deep, technical golf discussion dosen't mean that they aren't serious about playing better golf. There's room enough for detail oriented players and hit-it-and-find-it types.
The point I was trying to make was that in most golf discussions, you get the lively debate when there are differing theories/points of view/whatever. D-plane isn't a concept that has a whole lot of conflicting theories. You can't have a debate with only one side represented. That was my theory as to why this thread may have been so quiet.
tongzilla
New
I thought IQ=100 is supposed to be normal by definition.
jenhaoyen
New
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Played this weekend, tried to hit a low wedge by putting it back in my stance pulled it left with an on plane swing; didn't "hold it off" through impact.
THUS
D-plane says more forward lean equates to a more inside out ball position which made the ball take off more left that i had anticipated. Dropped another ball and move the ball position up and right at the flag.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Brian,
Seeing the lack of interest of your 8687 members in the subject of D-plane which is an essential element of your signature it seems that you have to do a serious effort in marketing your concepts. Seemingly if you advance anything requiring some mental effort it seems to rebuke most people.
Well, after 5 years+ on this forum, I have realized that the engine that drives this place is me. No offense to you, Mandrin, you are a VERY RESPECTED and VERY VALUABLE person around these parts.
I just haven't explained this whole D-Plane well enough in a post to generate sufficient interest.
After some further clean up in this thread, I will do just that.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Here ya go....
That would be incorrect.
The MOST IMPORTANT CONCEPT as it relates to the D-Plane is that the true 3d trajectory of the clubhead, and 3d direction of the clubface is HOW the D-Plane is formed along with the golf ball. In other words....what makes the ball go where!
This BLOWS UP the notion that "PLANE LINE" is at all responsible for ball flight.
Even the video "line drawers" think that if the clubhead goes DOWN a plane and back UP a plane, that the ball will go straight with a square clubhead at impact/separation.
It very well could, but it most cases IT WILL NOT!!!!
Also, the TGM book literalist wackos, who like to call me names, who think that Homer was infallible, have to swallow a HUGE LOAD OF FACT:
Plane line is semi-irrelevant to ball flight, and the wacky 11° inside-out alternate line is USELESS unless you are just teaching big ole HOOKS or 6° flat clubhead lie angles.
This caused quite a stir at a seminar this year, and the only reason you haven't heard more from it is I have been taking it easy on them.
No more.
Hey namecallers!
YOU ARE WRONG AGIAN!
Of course, they are lots of times.
See the next quote:
And I raise you this one:
You want to aim at the target?
You better learn to have the MINIMUM AMOUNT Of forward lean, or you will pull your hair out trying to hit it straight.
Sorry, Tourdeep.
I just haven't had the time to MAKE THEM interested.
I have a feeling they will now.
Nothing at all.
I kind of like it.
This empire isn't going anywhere.
Not as long as I am around.
Science is the basis for EVERYTHING I teach. And I am SO FAR OUT IN FRONT, it is scary.
I just went to the AMF Summit, and I felt like I was the only person in the house that knew what the TRACKMAN man was trying to say.
Do you have some answers now?
The debate is coming.
Or they are just giving up.
I played in Pinehurst last week, giving a playing lesson at MID PINES after the AMF Summit.
I hadn't hit a bucket or played a round in nearly two months.
After a 3 hole warm up stage, I played the rest of the way under par—easily—because of the D-Plane.
If you know how to make the ball go from A to B, and why your last ball went from A to C, you can hit lots of good "next shots."
I did.
Let's rock!
That would be incorrect.
The MOST IMPORTANT CONCEPT as it relates to the D-Plane is that the true 3d trajectory of the clubhead, and 3d direction of the clubface is HOW the D-Plane is formed along with the golf ball. In other words....what makes the ball go where!
This BLOWS UP the notion that "PLANE LINE" is at all responsible for ball flight.
Even the video "line drawers" think that if the clubhead goes DOWN a plane and back UP a plane, that the ball will go straight with a square clubhead at impact/separation.
It very well could, but it most cases IT WILL NOT!!!!
Also, the TGM book literalist wackos, who like to call me names, who think that Homer was infallible, have to swallow a HUGE LOAD OF FACT:
Plane line is semi-irrelevant to ball flight, and the wacky 11° inside-out alternate line is USELESS unless you are just teaching big ole HOOKS or 6° flat clubhead lie angles.
This caused quite a stir at a seminar this year, and the only reason you haven't heard more from it is I have been taking it easy on them.
No more.
Hey namecallers!
YOU ARE WRONG AGIAN!
Of course, they are lots of times.
See the next quote:
And I raise you this one:
You want to aim at the target?
You better learn to have the MINIMUM AMOUNT Of forward lean, or you will pull your hair out trying to hit it straight.
Sorry, Tourdeep.
I just haven't had the time to MAKE THEM interested.
I have a feeling they will now.
Is Brian than all wrong with below?
“Use your Pivot to snap your Kinetic Chain, and to assist your arms, hands and club with creating the proper "D" Plane for the selected shot.
Everything else is show biz“
Nothing at all.
I kind of like it.
If your opinion if shared by most it is just another very clear signal that the decline of an empire is definitely on its way. Matters of importance are inspired by the mind not by muscles.
This empire isn't going anywhere.
Not as long as I am around.
Science is the basis for EVERYTHING I teach. And I am SO FAR OUT IN FRONT, it is scary.
I just went to the AMF Summit, and I felt like I was the only person in the house that knew what the TRACKMAN man was trying to say.
Do you have some answers now?
The debate is coming.
Or they are just giving up.
I played in Pinehurst last week, giving a playing lesson at MID PINES after the AMF Summit.
I hadn't hit a bucket or played a round in nearly two months.
After a 3 hole warm up stage, I played the rest of the way under par—easily—because of the D-Plane.
If you know how to make the ball go from A to B, and why your last ball went from A to C, you can hit lots of good "next shots."
I did.
Let's rock!
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