Developing PGA Tour Players

[Kevin Shields]

I don't see how it's any different than turning pro in any other sport. The odds are astronomically against even the brightest of talent. I've played with a number of basketball players who are as or more talented than many household name NBA players, but they either lacked the brain or the valentine to compete at the top. There is no formula to follow. Every college coach and pro scout does their home work, watches their films, talks to all parties, but in the end it's a fishing trip. And usually if you cast the biggest net you'll have the best chance of landing the most fish. Betting on or trying to predict how a 15 to 20 year old reacts is a guessing game AT BEST.

Remember there is only 30 some spots available every year. Most of the spots at final stage are taken by re-treads. Those guys make it as difficult as possible for young talent to move up. Every other sport would have sent most of these guys to waivers. But the good old boy all exempt 125 keeps the veterans around who surface on the leaderboard twice a year but keep their card. Any other sport there out.

 

[magic43]

Kevin,
Point is that if the young talent can't beat your so-called retreads in Q School, where eveyone has the same shot at making it, then what chance will they have out on tour. Slim and none I'll wager. The good old boy exempt 125 status still has to be earned and guys lose their cards every year. In the end, it is still survival of the fitest and that it the way it should be IMHO.

 

[Jared Willerson]

Kevin,
Point is that if the young talent can't beat your so-called retreads in Q School, where eveyone has the same shot at making it, then what chance will they have out on tour. Slim and none I'll wager. The good old boy exempt 125 status still has to be earned and guys lose their cards every year. In the end, it is still survival of the fitest and that it the way it should be IMHO.

No substitute for experience though...I see the same guys at Q school every year. It's like a regular tournament for them.

IMO, they ought to have veteran slots and new guy slots. Also, I think it should be mandatory that anyone making it through Q-school for the first time should be made to play the Nationwide Tour. The phenoms would still make it to the big tour but the near phenoms could adjust to tour life a bit better on the Nationwide.

 

[jeffy]

Thanks Jeffy and 3Jack. Learning how to putt well is actually my greatest desire. I fiddle with different things constantly. Learning how to putt different ways, meaning cut across the ball like Billy Mayfair, hooking it like Bobby Locke..etc.etc. Thanks for the suggestions on the info. look-up. I'll check it out. I thought about buying Geoffs book.

FWIW, here is what worked for me (and is what I do to freshen up my putting on a regular basis). Before I developed this approach, I was very inconsistent. If I have time to follow this routine for a few weeks, I can putt very well in competition.

First, I work on developing a stroke that consistently puts a pure end-over-end roll on the ball. I do this using a piece of putting carpet I bought on-line and a striped ball. Set the stripe on the ball at right angles to the putter face and stroke ten foot putts. Watch the stripe: a pure end-over-end roll will have a stripe with no wobble at all. How you stroke it doesn't really matter, as long as you can repeat it and get a consistent strike. I use angled hinging (on an arc), which Brian says about 85% of his students use. I guess the rest use vertical hinging (straight back, straight through). The Sheriff, which Brian sells on the site, will help you develop a solid angled hinging stroke.

The second part is to practice developing touch. I do it by going to a practice green and putt every conceivable putt of about 15 feet and longer, using just one ball and always holing out. The idea is to get used to looking at a putt, then standing over it and putt with your instincts. You don't get "do overs" on the course, so don't take them on the practice green.

For learning how to stroke short putts under pressure, there are a lot of good drills, the "circle drill" being pretty popular. What I use is an old training aid called the Birdie Master, which, if you can find one, I'd recommend. Good luck!

Jeff

 

[holeout]

No substitute for experience though...I see the same guys at Q school every year. It's like a regular tournament for them.

IMO, they ought to have veteran slots and new guy slots. Also, I think it should be mandatory that anyone making it through Q-school for the first time should be made to play the Nationwide Tour. The phenoms would still make it to the big tour but the near phenoms could adjust to tour life a bit better on the Nationwide.

The biggest problem is most of the guys who played on the PGA Tour but lost their card get a free pass to final stage that year; play 6 rounds decently well and you're back on the Tour. The rest of the guys from the mini tours and Nationwide Tour have to get through 3 stages of qualifying, sometimes 4.

And the Nationwide Tour is great and all, but for most it is nothing but EXPENSIVE. It costs probably around $1000-$1800 a week to play out there with hotels, food, gas, etc. Plus you don't get into every event unless you're playing well.

The tour should cut to the top 100 guys, and let about 40-45 from the Nationwide Tour money list in every year. Expand Q-School's share to the same 40-45 and you'll see some young talent start to surface.

You guys don't know how good some of the guys on the Nationwide Tour really are. If a guy wins on the Nationwide Tour one week, he'd probably finish top-10 on the PGA Tour the same week. The talent is there; the spots for them on the PGA Tour are not.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Kevin,
Point is that if the young talent can't beat your so-called retreads in Q School, where eveyone has the same shot at making it, then what chance will they have out on tour. Slim and none I'll wager. The good old boy exempt 125 status still has to be earned and guys lose their cards every year. In the end, it is still survival of the fitest and that it the way it should be IMHO.

I never said the couldnt beat them, its that they make it as hard as possible to get out there. The policies protect the older guys, period.

 

[matt kluck]

Policies

Kevin,
They always have and always will. Look at the the amount "special events" most Q-school and Nationwide grads cannot get into.
MK

 

[rogerdodger]

Old story about Claude Harmon watching his son Dick work with Lanny Wadkins in his prime. Lanny smoked a 250 yard driver off the deck from a downhill lie onto the green and the old man wondered what his son was going to teach Lanny. No one at that level hits it bad. Putting separates the best players at the top.

 

[Steve Hale]

Old story about Claude Harmon watching his son Dick work with Lanny Wadkins in his prime. Lanny smoked a 250 yard driver off the deck from a downhill lie onto the green and the old man wondered what his son was going to teach Lanny. No one at that level hits it bad. Putting separates the best players at the top.

Agreed. those guys all hit it good. I have a hard time believing guys like Stan Utley or Brad Faxon simply chop it around, as some people lead us to believe. Not with the way they set up a TOUR course today. Of course it is all relative, but even the worst guys on TOUR hit it great. And do everything else pretty good for that matter.

 

[Zztop]

Remember there is only 30 some spots available every year. Most of the spots at final stage are taken by re-treads. Those guys make it as difficult as possible for young talent to move up. Every other sport would have sent most of these guys to waivers. But the good old boy all exempt 125 keeps the veterans around who surface on the leaderboard twice a year but keep their card. Any other sport there out.

Who sets the policy for the Pga exempt 125? Who's on the board?

 

[birdie_man]

If they don't know how to really read greens, then they should learn. I would imagine that having the caddy do most of the green reading work is usually a bad thing. I've heard a few Tour caddies tell me the same thing, most of the great putters on Tour read their own putts without any caddy input and guys like Tiger more or less get a confirmation.

Also learning where to leave yourself for most makeable putts (uphill right to lefters are the most often made putts by golfers). Most of the guys know where to not go because it's death, but understanding a simple concept like that can help. They have the ballstriking and chip/pitch skills to leave themselves with those putts, something I don't have the talent to do.

And generally avoiding fallacies in putting, like your eyes should be over the ball, or the optimal speed is 17" past the cup and then understanding their stroke and what is the root cause to their problems and making the proper adjustment to eliminate that root cause to their problems.

It's really not that different from working on your swing. The same problems with the same instructors with the same flawed instruction. There is no 'one way' to putt, but most instructors believe that.




3JACK

What's wrong with eyes over the line Richie?

Right to lefters more often made than straight putts?

I don't keep up with GM or anything. (though I take it he has a lot of good content)

 

[vjsinger]

What's wrong with eyes over the line Richie?

Right to lefters more often made than straight putts?

I don't keep up with GM or anything. (though I take it he has a lot of good content)

Yeah..lots of good players do it. I think you can see a straight line better doing that.

 

[Matt 4-L]

And the Nationwide Tour is great and all, but for most it is nothing but EXPENSIVE. It costs probably around $1000-$1800 a week to play out there with hotels, food, gas, etc. Plus you don't get into every event unless you're playing well.

A lot of the guys are hauling travel trailers or fifth wheels and cook their own food so it is considerable less than your $1000-$1800 estimate.

 

[welshdentist]

Yeah..lots of good players do it. I think you can see a straight line better doing that.

My understanding is that you tend to be more likely to gaze staight out of your eye sockets doing that.

If you gaze straight out of your eye sockets at the ball, when you turn your head you are more likely to turn and look at where you are aiming. They don't HAVE to be over the ball.

Please chime in any GM gurus out there (Damon?)

 

[ggsjpc]

You can't teach talent or smarts. Good ole genetics....

 

[Richie3Jack]

No one at that level hits it bad. Putting separates the best players at the top.

Distance plays a major factor as well.

Brad Faxon is a lousy ballstriker. I am confident that while I don't consider myself a great ballstriker by any means, I can strike the ball better than Brad Faxon. Eric Axley is pretty lousy as well.

Take a look at the top 10 in the current world rankings:

1. Tiger - Long (great putter)
2. Mickelson - Long (great, but streaky putter)
3. Casey - Long (solid putter)
4. Perry - Long (putting is his weakness)
5. Garcia - Long (putting is his weakness)
6. Stricker - Average Tour Length, fantastic putter
7. Henrik Stenson - Long (solid putter)
8. Ogilvy - Solid Length (good putter)
9. Cink - Above Average Length (solid putter)
10. Furyk - Below Average Length (typically a great putter)

I think what seperates the best from the rest is usually they are long and can putt very well. Somebody like Kenny Perry, not known for their putting, makes up for it because not only is he long, but he is just a great ballstriker in general. But there really isn't a lot of short hitters on top of the world rankings.



3JACK

 

[Richie3Jack]

What's wrong with eyes over the line Richie?

Right to lefters more often made than straight putts?

I don't keep up with GM or anything. (though I take it he has a lot of good content)

It's not that eyes over the line is necessarily bad, it's just not necessary and often does golfers more good than bad. And a ton of the worlds great putters don't have the eyes over the lines, but 'claim' they do...much akin to some great Tour player claiming they do this and that in the swing and they don't.

Basically the eyes need to be in the same direction as to where the face is pointing. So no looking up and no looking down.




3JACK

 

[needham]

A lot of the guys are hauling travel trailers or fifth wheels and cook their own food so it is considerable less than your $1000-$1800 estimate.

uhhh.....check the MPG on those , it is about 4!! deisel at that, do the math......plus generator gas, rental for plumbing and such.....so really the "bus" tour player might spend more, esp if they are paying a driver.

I have know mini tour players that tell me (even with carpooling) it is $1500 to stay out there week to week

 

[Matt 4-L]

uhhh.....check the MPG on those , it is about 4!! deisel at that, do the math......plus generator gas, rental for plumbing and such.....so really the "bus" tour player might spend more, esp if they are paying a driver.

I have know mini tour players that tell me (even with carpooling) it is $1500 to stay out there week to week

I have one and I get 9 miles per gallon and most rv campgrounds are between $20 and $30 per night....Generator gas, rental for plumbing and such? Its obvious you have never used an rv, the only time you need to run a generator is if you are not plugged in....I am not saying you can't spend $1500 plus on staying out there but what I am saying is you can spend very little if you want too. If you want to go out to a fancy dinner every night and stay at high end hotels you can spend lots of money but if you want to park your rv at the local Walmart for free and cook your own meals you can do it cheaply too.

 

[needham]

you want to park your rv at the local Walmart for free and cook your own meals you can do it cheaply too.

LOL..... sorry man this is TOO FUNNY...........I will check the parking lot for DLIII next time.
gas for gen is important cause you are not "PLUGGED IN" at walmart.
My point being, I do not think many of the spoiled tour players or going to "rough it " in the wally world parking lot.

I do however understand your point. But if a guy is struggling to make it out there, NO WAY IN HELL does he have enough money for a RV, roughing it or not. In fact if he had the money for a RV, what they should do is buy a nice sedan with 1/2 of it and then take the other 1/2 of the money and search for good instruction.

but anyways ...........it is still about 1.5 dimes weekly to mini-tour it........even with the "discount" many local hotels do for the week and carpooling. In fact, one of the guys I knew had a private sponser that gave him 55k everyyear, and he still sweated cuts and had to play EVERY pro-am to make all the ends meet.
which boils down to this.......the tour is full of rich spoiled kids......if you are not rich you better be better than tigger and have some sponsers.