Everybody with access to a MPH gauge....

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macduffer

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I wonder if (actively) swinging with both arms activates more muscles in the core/lower body? Ie swinging right arm only would suggest to me that the pulling motion of the left torso is (unless you consciously think about it) reduced, and that left only would minimise the right side.
Also, is there something going on with length of arc?
What about FATS?
 
natep

natep

New
I would guess it has to be about the right hand being under the left and the leverage and mechanical advantage that provides.
 
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greenfree

Banned
It's about doing what gets the best results for you. If you "think" your pure swinging, or hitting , or swing/hitting it doesn't matter, only the results matter. Just like who cares what it's supposed to "look like", i only care if it works , if it happens to make me look slimmer while i'm doing it all the better, right Steve T...lol.
 
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leon

New
Aren't we all missing something here. Everyone has pretty much got the obvious - pure swinging (#2) or hitting (#3) alone are sub-optimal whilst using the right hand to apply force across the shaft during a pivot driven swing (#1) maximises clubhead speed. I think Brian has said as much before, maybe in one of his videos.

But if this were Brian's only point, why 4 & 5? I'm still guessing force across the shaft and that it can't be done, at least effectively, without left hand on the grip. But 5 would seem to be some sort of 'braking/resistance' effect that I'm not familiar with. Is there some model that suggests this is optimal, that Brian has just had you all disprove? If so, he's even smarter than I thought :)
 
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alexandjacob

New
trying it............LIKING IT

I like what Brian put forward. he asked that people try different motions.....

not only are we getting different answers, but we are now THINKING as we should be about the golf swing

if this is the beginning....I feel we are on our way to a WHOLE NEW WORLD.....


AJ
 
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dbl

New
Perhaps when both hands are on properly (#1), something is restrained and ...of course...released in a better way: viola, higher clubhead speed. Maybe lag or left wrist cock? Then with the funny right hand positions of #4 and #5 we see that the same restraining does not happen.
 
Frans@France

Frans@France

New
IMHO it shows (but I will test also) that the release is not timed or controled but a consequence of the head in motion becoming to "heavy" for the wrist to sustain the wrist angle.

As soon as the wrist can not longer hold the angle the head/club is released. Because right handed players are normally stronger in the right wrist they can hold the angle just a bit longer then with the left wrist therefor the slightly higher swing speed.

Using both hands on the grip creates an overall stronger "wrist" which helps sustaining the angle just that bit longer.
 
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SteveT

Guest
Frans@France said:
IMHO it shows (but I will test also) that the release is not timed or controled but a consequence of the head in motion becoming to "heavy" for the wrist to sustain the wrist angle.

As soon as the wrist can not longer hold the angle the head/club is released. Because right handed players are normally stronger in the right wrist they can hold the angle just a bit longer then with the left wrist therefor the slightly higher swing speed.

Using both hands on the grip creates an overall stronger "wrist" which helps sustaining the angle just that bit longer.
Click to expand...

It's been proven scientifically that the 'wrist angle' starts increasing when the shaft passes vertical in the downswing due to the growing momentum of the club.

What about pressure point #3 in the rear hand which can only be sustained if you are pushing with your rear hand ... unless you assume the lead hand is torquing the club handle in opposition to normal release!

What about the 'freewheeling' of the lead hand; when do you finally allow the lead wrist to freewheel and no longer holding it back?

It seems like the lagging wrists are subject to a counter-lagging force, but where does it come from and how is it timed in the downswing?
 
Frans@France

Frans@France

New
SteveT said:
It's been proven scientifically that the 'wrist angle' starts increasing when the shaft passes vertical in the downswing due to the growing momentum of the club.
Click to expand...

But would that then dismiss what I was saying?

SteveT said:
What about pressure point #3 in the rear hand which can only be sustained if you are pushing with your rear hand ... unless you assume the lead hand is torquing the club handle in opposition to normal release!
Click to expand...

euhh....pp#3.... what's that, I'm not a TGM guy :eek:

SteveT said:
What about the 'freewheeling' of the lead hand; when do you finally allow the lead wrist to freewheel and no longer holding it back?
Click to expand...

Can you really freewheel or really hold it back?

--

Just did the test myself

93mph
76
74
86
78
 
E

EC

New
4 Barrels

Can only utilize all four accumulators with both hands attached in a relatively conventional manner (N0.1).
 
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leon

New
Just re-watched soft draw. Near the start Brian says that pure swinging would give you around 85% of "full power" which can be achieved by applying force across the shaft. Most people's mph numbers, including Brian, show #2 to #5 being around 80-85% of #1, so I'm even more sure now that this is what he is getting at.

Brian, any chance of putting us out of our misery on this?
 
ZAP

ZAP

New
Thought about going to the local store and trying this but with all the idiot shoppers out there I am not going. I will take your word for it. What did I learn?
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
(one of) The Answer(s) is.....

TGM theorizes that the left arm and club unit is the "primary lever assembly."

Call it what ever you want.

But you can hardly add a lick of speed to it—as a unit—by straightening the right arm and push against & across it.

There is more, but that's one big one.
 
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birly-shirly

New
I saw that in the results people posted and, to be honest, it really surprised me.

Brian - was this what you were expecting? And do you have an explanation as to why the right arm seems unable to add any speed?

I can think of a couple of possible explanations. One being that the right arm action maybe adds some additional speed earlier in the downswing but that this doesn't translate into any higher speed at impact.

The other thing that hit me was the extra 20mph or so that you get from taking a conventional grip. Is this the effect of a "powered wrist hinge" and does this contradict Jorgensen's predictions about the difficulty (high) and the benefits (low) of powering the clubhead release at the wrist?
 
Virtuoso

Virtuoso

New
For an efficient sequential chain to take place, the amount of "slack" in the system must be minimized. This allows the most effective transfer of energy from the center (the body pivot)to the most distal link (the clubhead). By placing both of your hands on a "rigid" object like you can with a conventional grip on the clubshaft, you can keep slack out of the system for a longer period of time than if you just have one hand connected to the "rigid" object.

A more simple statement: the hands can maintain their distance from the belly button at the start of the downswing more easily if they are both on the club.
 
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birly-shirly

New
One thing that intrigued me about the way that the test was set up was that there wasn't a 6th option to swing with a split handed grip.
 
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