I've thought about this for at least ten minutes now and I can't see the significance of it at all. In what context is this significant, given that 70mph is hugely different to 90mph (in your own example) and we are dealing with totaly different systems.
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Everybody with access to a MPH gauge....
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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I've thought about this for at least ten minutes now and I can't see the significance of it at all. In what context is this significant, given that 70mph is hugely different to 90mph (in your own example) and we are dealing with totaly different systems.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I've thought about this for at least ten minutes now and I can't see the significance of it at all. In what context is this significant, given that 70mph is hugely different to 90mph (in your own example) and we are dealing with totaly different systems.
Come on....
You're smart.
The left arm move VERY LITTLE in the golf swing relative to the torso, the RIGHT ARM CAN'T SPEED IT UP MUCH AT ALL.
That's it.
Period.
End of story.
There are folks who think it can a bunch.....they are wrong.
chipingguru
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Not quite following that conclusion, although I am surprised the left and right arm swings are so close.
Is the right arm adding 20 mph to the left or vice versa. But you arent just swinging with one arm, with left arm you got the left shoulder, tricepts, glutes, whatever. Same with right arm.
I can only conclude that more muscles involved (effectively used) the more speed.
Did you try it with zeroing out the pivot? But if you did that it might not tell much cause you couldnt swing the club as far back with the left as the right w/o the pivot. But you would also "run out of right arm".
Interesting test though.
Is the right arm adding 20 mph to the left or vice versa. But you arent just swinging with one arm, with left arm you got the left shoulder, tricepts, glutes, whatever. Same with right arm.
I can only conclude that more muscles involved (effectively used) the more speed.
Did you try it with zeroing out the pivot? But if you did that it might not tell much cause you couldnt swing the club as far back with the left as the right w/o the pivot. But you would also "run out of right arm".
Interesting test though.
Interesting indeed. Good point.
To me this also shows that when both hands on the club, force across the shaft from right arm generates an important (positive) torque that contributes a lot to the clubhead speed. When you're holding/grasping the wrist, that torque is the same as swinging with one arm only, which is very little.
In a way it also shows to me the difference between pure swinging and normal swing where right arm works at the right moment in downswing. And more importantly, where that right arm contriibution comes from.
Edit: There's also the factor that earlier in downswing with two hands on the club you can generate a negative torque that hold the wrist angles longer. I wonder how much that contributes.
To me this also shows that when both hands on the club, force across the shaft from right arm generates an important (positive) torque that contributes a lot to the clubhead speed. When you're holding/grasping the wrist, that torque is the same as swinging with one arm only, which is very little.
In a way it also shows to me the difference between pure swinging and normal swing where right arm works at the right moment in downswing. And more importantly, where that right arm contriibution comes from.
Edit: There's also the factor that earlier in downswing with two hands on the club you can generate a negative torque that hold the wrist angles longer. I wonder how much that contributes.
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chipingguru
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I am still fascinated by the closeness of swinging speed with only left and right arm. I wonder what the diference would be among the same group of folks if they threw a football with their left arm, then their right. I would have thought if you throw a ball a lot further with your right than left the same would apply to swinging a golf club. Reveals the unique characteristics of a golf swing perhaps. Then again a left arm and right arm golf swing is quite a differenct motion with different levers, isn't it? I guess the football analogy would hold true if you swung a clug right armed only then used the left arm to swing left handed (standing on the right side of the ball like a left hander).
chipingguru
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Does the term "negative torque" = clubshaft stress?
I am unfamiliar with the term and have seen it pop up here a few times.
I am unfamiliar with the term and have seen it pop up here a few times.
Negative torque (as I understand it) is the use of the hands to "hold off" or restrict the (torque) acceleration of the clubhead in the direction of the ball coming into impact in order to prevent the left wrist bending too early and the clubhead reaching its low point too early (flipping).
Edit: There's also the factor that earlier in downswing with two hands on the club you can generate a negative torque that hold the wrist angles longer. I wonder how much that contributes.
That's pretty much what I and another poster a few pages back think, and I'm still thinking it's the right answer.
Interesting indeed. Good point.
To me this also shows that when both hands on the club, force across the shaft from right arm generates an important (positive) torque that contributes a lot to the clubhead speed. When you're holding/grasping the wrist, that torque is the same as swinging with one arm only, which is very little.
In a way it also shows to me the difference between pure swinging and normal swing where right arm works at the right moment in downswing. And more importantly, where that right arm contriibution comes from.
Edit: There's also the factor that earlier in downswing with two hands on the club you can generate a negative torque that hold the wrist angles longer. I wonder how much that contributes.
To me, the bolded part it the important part to gather from the experiment. Same accumulators firing, but completely different results. Torque is the important concept to understand here.
S
SteveT
Guest
I've always been appalled at the complete lack of understanding of applied forces, torque, momentum, inertia ... all Newtonian physics terminology, when applied to the golfswing by people struggling to explain things scientifically.
People just puddle about in their intuitive physics based on what and how they anecdotally feel, or try to apply Homer's failed physics. It's really quite pathetic.
Perhaps it's best if you all just reverted to something you can talk about with authority .. your feelings during your golfswing .. and leave the 'physics' alone, because you are really botching it up.
People just puddle about in their intuitive physics based on what and how they anecdotally feel, or try to apply Homer's failed physics. It's really quite pathetic.
Perhaps it's best if you all just reverted to something you can talk about with authority .. your feelings during your golfswing .. and leave the 'physics' alone, because you are really botching it up.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I've always been appalled at the complete lack of understanding of applied forces, torque, momentum, inertia ... all Newtonian physics terminology, when applied to the golfswing by people struggling to explain things scientifically.
People just puddle about in their intuitive physics based on what and how they anecdotally feel, or try to apply Homer's failed physics. It's really quite pathetic.
Perhaps it's best if you all just reverted to something you can talk about with authority .. your feelings during your golfswing .. and leave the 'physics' alone, because you are really botching it up.
Botching aside....
There is VERY LITTLE that the right arm—by itself—can do to speed up the UPPER LEVER.
You have a problem with that, or no?
chipingguru
New
Moment arm.
Botching aside....
There is VERY LITTLE that the right arm—by itself—can do to speed up the UPPER LEVER.
You have a problem with that, or no?
I'd disagree a bit with that Brian. I think there is a little bit of push force on the left arm by the right arm. At the same time the right arm is pulling on the shaft. I think strictly thinking the left arm pulls on the shaft is where most people simply go wrong.
I don't know how significant this push force would be but clearly the hands go from close to the right shoulder to thigh high at impact. That distance should account for something.
chipingguru
New
But in the "snaping the kinetic chain" theory the body stops at some point and the arms take over which is supposed to supply extra power if the snap occurs.
Isn't that counter to the idea that the right arm isn't contributing much push to the left (and or the club).
I cite Freddies hugely arched right wrist post impact and srtaight right arm.
Isn't that counter to the idea that the right arm isn't contributing much push to the left (and or the club).
I cite Freddies hugely arched right wrist post impact and srtaight right arm.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Brian is talking about the upper lever--the arm specifically, not the club. It seems that the point he's making is that the right arm's contribution to increasing force/speed is seen more in it's interaction with the club than with the actual left arm itself.
I've been thinking about this experiment.There is just one problem.
The bottleneck is always going to be the single wrist used in experiment number 4 and 5.
You are never going to swing as hard as when both hands are on the club as in experiment 1 otherwise you might break the wrist or you release much earlier to take the stress off.
The point is you can only swing as hard as one hand on the club allows so it doesn't necessarily prove that the right arm cannot speed up the left.One hand can only handle so much clubhead speed.Trying to match the clubhead speed of both hands with one could break your wrist.
The bottleneck is always going to be the single wrist used in experiment number 4 and 5.
You are never going to swing as hard as when both hands are on the club as in experiment 1 otherwise you might break the wrist or you release much earlier to take the stress off.
The point is you can only swing as hard as one hand on the club allows so it doesn't necessarily prove that the right arm cannot speed up the left.One hand can only handle so much clubhead speed.Trying to match the clubhead speed of both hands with one could break your wrist.
chipingguru
New
If the right arm is pushing the club is it not pushing the left arm too, since it is attached to the club?
If the right arm is pushing the club is it not pushing the left arm too, since it is attached to the club?
Yes,but you will instictively not push as hard so as not to break or injure your left wrist.We humans have an instict for self preservation.
chipingguru
New
I am willing to accept a broken wrist for decent impact................
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