Brian Manzella
Administrator
Redgoats pic on the right is WAY WAY too upright at the top of his back and head.
February '04 - Get in Position to Play Your Best!
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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Brian - I appreciate why you advocate the head/shoulder position you do (and agree with you) - but between being too 'up' or too 'down' with the head\chin position, far more danger is in being too 'down' - (for average players) - this leads to a flat position, restricted turn, and too much lift and forearm rotation (and can lead to shanks).
Shoulder position being too stiff\back is the more dangerous than the head being too 'up'
I think one of the best checks for head position, and setup, and alignment is to 'look through the window' (Toski). Let your head turn on the spine prior to takeaway - without lifting/changing the angle - if you see your target in the 'window' - fire - if not, you are out of position. Works well for putting too.
Shoulder position being too stiff\back is the more dangerous than the head being too 'up'
I think one of the best checks for head position, and setup, and alignment is to 'look through the window' (Toski). Let your head turn on the spine prior to takeaway - without lifting/changing the angle - if you see your target in the 'window' - fire - if not, you are out of position. Works well for putting too.
Redgoat
New
6bee1dee,
I don't recall saying that. Could you elaborate?
Hue,
Yes, I did set up with more bend and create significantly more tilt than I do now. I also had a great deal more float loading. I changed because it was killing my body and, quite frankly, I couldn't control the ball. My personal change has evolved over the last 15 years.
Redgoat
I don't recall saying that. Could you elaborate?
Hue,
Yes, I did set up with more bend and create significantly more tilt than I do now. I also had a great deal more float loading. I changed because it was killing my body and, quite frankly, I couldn't control the ball. My personal change has evolved over the last 15 years.
Redgoat
"Yes, I did set up with more bend and create significantly more tilt than I do now. I also had a great deal more float loading. I changed because it was killing my body and, quite frankly, I couldn't control the ball."
Redgoat: I take it that it was the degree of axis tilt that was killing your body. You also say that you reduced the float loading in your swing and that you could not control the ball. Was it the degree of float loading or a combination of that and the old set up that lead to loss of accuracy in your opinion? When you made the changes to less forward bend , less axis tilt and less float loading did you get th ball control you were looking for? Did you lose a lot of distance?
Did you make these changes off your own back or did others influence the changes? Thanks.
Redgoat: I take it that it was the degree of axis tilt that was killing your body. You also say that you reduced the float loading in your swing and that you could not control the ball. Was it the degree of float loading or a combination of that and the old set up that lead to loss of accuracy in your opinion? When you made the changes to less forward bend , less axis tilt and less float loading did you get th ball control you were looking for? Did you lose a lot of distance?
Did you make these changes off your own back or did others influence the changes? Thanks.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Yes, I (Brian Manzella, esq.) DID set-up much more like Redgoat suggests and I:
1. Lifted out of my waist bend on the backswing MORE than I did later
2. Couldn't mash it ANYWHERE near like i do now.
and, BTW, I USED TO float load MORE than I do now and that's when I played MUCH BETTER than I do now.
...but whatever works for you Brady...
1. Lifted out of my waist bend on the backswing MORE than I did later
2. Couldn't mash it ANYWHERE near like i do now.
and, BTW, I USED TO float load MORE than I do now and that's when I played MUCH BETTER than I do now.
...but whatever works for you Brady...
I'll have to search for the copy of the article. I know you have made comments on Els swing several times in the past, so I thought it was from you. The author pointed out that at set up his trousers cuffs pointed straight down perpendicular to his feet. This gave him perfect set-up. I'll look for it.
Redgoat
New
Hue,
Yes, it was the combination of excessive tilt and a bowed left wrist that hurt both my back and wrist. It was the complete change in philosophy that brought my ball striking back and beyond where it had ever been. My zest for lag and focus on the inside aft quadrant created an excessively inside attack with the subsequent hooks and blocks that follow.
My swing is now sustantially more effective, consistent, painless, and low maintainence than before. The distance I lost with the short irons was a benefit as it removed the large gaps created from hitting the 8,9, and PW too far. The delofting that was the result of the excessive bowing of the left wrist was no longer an issue. In fact, I gained distance with my driver and long irons by hitting the ball on the proper trajectory.
Personally, I only mention inside aft quadrant to my slicers, prefering instead to see the club, arms, and hands to go LEFT immediately after impact. That slight fade as a miss is a thing of beauty and I encourage it in most of my high caliber players.
Finally, I must say that I have stollen ideas from everyone possible. Watching video of hundreds of tour players has had the greatest influence on my style as a player and teacher, so I guess I made these changes on my own with the help of everyone and anyone who had an idea that made sense to me.
Redgoat
Yes, it was the combination of excessive tilt and a bowed left wrist that hurt both my back and wrist. It was the complete change in philosophy that brought my ball striking back and beyond where it had ever been. My zest for lag and focus on the inside aft quadrant created an excessively inside attack with the subsequent hooks and blocks that follow.
My swing is now sustantially more effective, consistent, painless, and low maintainence than before. The distance I lost with the short irons was a benefit as it removed the large gaps created from hitting the 8,9, and PW too far. The delofting that was the result of the excessive bowing of the left wrist was no longer an issue. In fact, I gained distance with my driver and long irons by hitting the ball on the proper trajectory.
Personally, I only mention inside aft quadrant to my slicers, prefering instead to see the club, arms, and hands to go LEFT immediately after impact. That slight fade as a miss is a thing of beauty and I encourage it in most of my high caliber players.
Finally, I must say that I have stollen ideas from everyone possible. Watching video of hundreds of tour players has had the greatest influence on my style as a player and teacher, so I guess I made these changes on my own with the help of everyone and anyone who had an idea that made sense to me.
Redgoat
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Brady...please tell me you aren't in the HARMON/LEADBETTER/SMITHetal camp that thinks axis tilt and a 'too-far-to-the-right' 'path'.......??
Redgoat
New
Brian,
I can assure you that any similarity to a specific "camp" is a complete coincidence. There is no one person or "school" of thought that has earned my devotion. I teach what I know and if it sounds like TGM, Lead, Harmon than so be it. However, it is not intentional.
I didn't fully grasp the content of your post regarding axis tilt and too far to the right path. Please elaborate. Were you asking if I believe in less tilt and less inside path?
Redgoat
I can assure you that any similarity to a specific "camp" is a complete coincidence. There is no one person or "school" of thought that has earned my devotion. I teach what I know and if it sounds like TGM, Lead, Harmon than so be it. However, it is not intentional.
I didn't fully grasp the content of your post regarding axis tilt and too far to the right path. Please elaborate. Were you asking if I believe in less tilt and less inside path?
Redgoat
Redgoat
New
densikat,
I prefer them to play between straight and a slight fade. That is to say the misses should always be left to right and not right to left. However, if they arrive right to left and can control it, then I will let it ride as the change in the mind's eye to a fade can be very difficult to accomplish.
Redgoat
I prefer them to play between straight and a slight fade. That is to say the misses should always be left to right and not right to left. However, if they arrive right to left and can control it, then I will let it ride as the change in the mind's eye to a fade can be very difficult to accomplish.
Redgoat
Brian Manzella
Administrator
So sorry...
What I was saying (asking) was if you fell in to the camp that THINKS if you have TOO MUCH axis tilt (or some of those yahoos) or any, you will swing TOO FAR to the right.
Which is obviously not correct>>>>>>>>>>see Lee Buck Trevino
What I was saying (asking) was if you fell in to the camp that THINKS if you have TOO MUCH axis tilt (or some of those yahoos) or any, you will swing TOO FAR to the right.
Which is obviously not correct>>>>>>>>>>see Lee Buck Trevino
How exactly, is Trevino an example? Considering he aimed way left with his lower body - which tends to prove the point that too much tilt DOES 'tend' to make you swing right - he just compensated by giving himself room for the tilt by aiming left and giving himself room to get his shoulders back on line while tilting...his right shoulder in particular
While I'd agree that 'too much' tilt isn't good - as long as it is relatively constant... it does put things 'out in front' of you, which lets that right side control direction, and lessens the amount of rotation through the ball (best to play a fade, unless you like the high loop draw)
While I'd agree that 'too much' tilt isn't good - as long as it is relatively constant... it does put things 'out in front' of you, which lets that right side control direction, and lessens the amount of rotation through the ball (best to play a fade, unless you like the high loop draw)
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Ok Ed...
How about Bruce Lietski?
How about Bruce Lietski?
quote:Originally posted by brianman
So sorry...
What I was saying (asking) was if you fell in to the camp that THINKS if you have TOO MUCH axis tilt (or some of those yahoos) or any, you will swing TOO FAR to the right.
Which is obviously not correct>>>>>>>>>>see Lee Buck Trevino
I don't thinks there's a camp for this. I thought it was just a natural tendency of too much tilt.
Why wouldn't axis tilt (ie. too much axis tilt) lead to too much in-to-out swing path, and possible fat shots, pushes/hooks?
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