Foley Says Kostis Mangled Tiger Swing Analysis
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If he would have stopped after "he dropped it more to the inside" creating his draw, he covered it. That toe stuff light years after impact makes NO sense.
Yup.
Brilliant question.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
A body release can mean anything to anyone. He isn't saying anything about squaring the club face, is he?
Kevin
Are you saying a body release cannot square the club face? If not, are you saying it's not the optimal way to do so? Is Perez confused about what he wanted to do and what he thinks the best players do?
Pete
JEREMY5577
New
Pete, no expert here by any means, but you can pivot as hard as you want as long as the intent of the pivot is to speed up the handle. Thats the way I read Perez's statement.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Yeah....he already knows how to do something (gamma) that he doesn't know exists.
The pivot alone will NOT square up the face.
He's just a player, guessing at things he feels, speaking about things he has only a passing clue about.
Jeremy,
I'm certainly no expert either. I'm just trying to understand. The way I understood Perez's comment was that the pivot led the arms and hands through impact. if I'm missing what he was saying I'd just like to know. Hebron said to let the "inside" control the "outside" many years ago. Kevin says it's a "horrible" concept..........I'd justblikevto understand why.
Pete
Brian Manzella
Administrator
The pivot is leading the hands and club into impact.
But it is in MASSIVE deceleration before impact.
Trying to just pivot with no decel through the ball is total junk—if you actually do it.
But it is in MASSIVE deceleration before impact.
Trying to just pivot with no decel through the ball is total junk—if you actually do it.
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
It's a bad concept because just pivoting without using the hands and arms drags the handle and all kinds of compensations are required to put the club on the ball. The arms and hands move independently of the pivot, if they didn't and someone "pivoted to the finish" the arms would go so far outside the ball that contact would be impossible.
I personally pivoted so much and held the flat left wrist so much, that I had the biggest handle raise chicken wing finish you ever saw. "Ideas" unlocked my swing and am playing better than I ever have.
I personally pivoted so much and held the flat left wrist so much, that I had the biggest handle raise chicken wing finish you ever saw. "Ideas" unlocked my swing and am playing better than I ever have.
Lindsey Newman
New
Pete J,
I understand where you are coming from, but the "why" for which you desperately seek is everywhere over the last year and half of posts supplied by many forum members and the Manzella instructors.
What Kevin is saying is true in effect because EVERY swing and person is unique. One person may respond completely opposite of another by using their pivot more or less. One player may turn the face off the plane towards the ball or another may drag the hosel. One person may carry the shaft and swing it out creating a squaring effect, while another may allow it to drop under and open the face.
These are the issues with looking for the "secret".
I understand where you are coming from, but the "why" for which you desperately seek is everywhere over the last year and half of posts supplied by many forum members and the Manzella instructors.
What Kevin is saying is true in effect because EVERY swing and person is unique. One person may respond completely opposite of another by using their pivot more or less. One player may turn the face off the plane towards the ball or another may drag the hosel. One person may carry the shaft and swing it out creating a squaring effect, while another may allow it to drop under and open the face.
These are the issues with looking for the "secret".
hp12c
New
Oh u said that word "secret" now u did it! Now this thread will get more views and responses on finding the "secret"
Lindsey
I really appreciate you taking the time to try to explain this to me. Having played this utterly frustrating game about 40 years,for some reason it doesn't seem to get easier. My HC has gone up from about an 8 to around a 15 in the last two years........I think in part from spending too much time on these type of forums. Good luck to all of you trying to improve your games......I'm going tontryba different route.
faux_maestro
New
I know from MY personal experience that I am a MUCH better player from hanging around here. I may have had a different experience due to my ability to translate the printed word into action without ever having taken an in person lesson. Some are unable to make that work for them. Best of luck to you.
I just can't believe that there are still guys out there who think the opposite. They must be gaga.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
It's a horrible concept TO SQUARE THE FACE!!!
Hebron is talking about speed having its origin near the center of the body flowing outwardly toward the club, not squaring the face.
OK I do agree with this for what it is worth but I do not understand how this happens. Can you please elaborate on this?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
The hips turn less than the chest on the backswing, the chest less then the left shoulder complex, the left shoulder less than the hands, the hands less than the club.
Early in the downswing, the hips lead the chest, which lead the left shoulder, arms, hands, and clubhead.
If they all continued through impact at the same rate, you'd have a great big mess.
Why?
Because there would be no way to put the clubhead speed needed into the club. (plus a whole bunch of club delivery issues)
Remember, the clubhead is going relatively slow when the whole train is moving together!
Early in the downswing, the hips lead the chest, which lead the left shoulder, arms, hands, and clubhead.
If they all continued through impact at the same rate, you'd have a great big mess.
Why?
Because there would be no way to put the clubhead speed needed into the club. (plus a whole bunch of club delivery issues)
Remember, the clubhead is going relatively slow when the whole train is moving together!
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