Foley Says Kostis Mangled Tiger Swing Analysis

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The hips turn less than the chest on the backswing, the chest less then the left shoulder complex, the left shoulder less than the hands, the hands less than the club.

Early in the downswing, the hips lead the chest, which lead the left shoulder, arms, hands, and clubhead.

If they all continued through impact at the same rate, you'd have a great big mess.

Why?

Because there would be no way to put the clubhead speed needed into the club. (plus a whole bunch of club delivery issues)


Remember, the clubhead is going relatively slow when the whole train is moving together!

Is centrifugal force involved here with the center being the pivot which slows down? The part I don't understand is how does the pivot slow down at the proper time?
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Intention—to get the club to and though the ball—is the key.

Often, this intention is sub-conscious, but the application of the clubhead to the ball, through the hands, is what sets in motion all the accels and decels.

But the body positioning that needs to assist all of this proper intention, usually has to be trained.
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
The hips turn less than the chest on the backswing, the chest less then the left shoulder complex, the left shoulder less than the hands, the hands less than the club.

Early in the downswing, the hips lead the chest, which lead the left shoulder, arms, hands, and clubhead.

If they all continued through impact at the same rate, you'd have a great big mess.

Why?

Because there would be no way to put the clubhead speed needed into the club. (plus a whole bunch of club delivery issues)


Remember, the clubhead is going relatively slow when the whole train is moving together!

I have so many people who pivot at the same "rate" as the club is moving and they hit it nowhere
 

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
If everything moved at the same rate, there would be no release. At some point the hands, arms and club have to release independent of the body.
 
Lindsey
I really appreciate you taking the time to try to explain this to me. Having played this utterly frustrating game about 40 years,for some reason it doesn't seem to get easier. My HC has gone up from about an 8 to around a 15 in the last two years........I think in part from spending too much time on these type of forums. Good luck to all of you trying to improve your games......I'm going tontryba different route.

God speed
 
It's simple.

Kinetic chain.

One muscle group helps to propel the next muscle group, which then helps propel the next muscle group.

If the first muscle group is trying to continue propelling all the way through impact, then only one set of muscles are actually doing any work. Seems rather silly.

At some point there has to be a slow down in order for the others to move past them. Also, we're dealing with quick-twitch muscles which should only fire briefly anyway. Trying to extend their firing is the precise opposite of what "quick-twitch" means.
 
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Lindsey
I really appreciate you taking the time to try to explain this to me. Having played this utterly frustrating game about 40 years,for some reason it doesn't seem to get easier. My HC has gone up from about an 8 to around a 15 in the last two years........I think in part from spending too much time on these type of forums. Good luck to all of you trying to improve your games......I'm going tontryba different route.

You probably are right in saying that you have increased your handicap but reading golf forums. It happens all the time. Text on a website is a poor excuse for a golf lesson. There are a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum but what good is that to you if none of them have ever seen you swing the golf club? You need to work with someone. LIVE. On the lesson tee and golf course. Forums are about sharing ideas, not teaching individual players. You get with one of the teachers on this site, and i guarantee your handicap comes back down.
 
Lots of paths to take to get your form back, but I'd strongly recommend against one in particular....

The one where you get yourself banned from several golf forums, torch every teacher who's ever tried to help you, buy a video camera, create your own reality on your own golf forum, publicize your bizarre stalking of one teacher, fall in love with yet another method, join a country club for the driving range, only concern yourself with what your swing looks like, foster an unhealthy, vindictive, fanatical personality, concern yourself with only the fictional facts of your newest reality, ignore all science in direct conflict with your current pre-failed method, invite discussion to create drama and angst, and above all else.... make sure you never burden yourself with the responsibility of keeping a score card. That would only serve to undermine your previous year's work.

Don't do the above, and you should have a chance. This advice may sound like a celebration of the obvious, but you'd be surprised. :rolleyes:
 
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It's simple.

Kinetic chain.

One muscle group helps to propel the next muscle group, which then helps propel the next muscle group.

If the first muscle group is trying to continue propelling all the way through impact, then only one set of muscles are actually doing any work. Seems rather silly.

At some point there has to be a slow down in order for the others to move past them. Also, we're dealing with quick-twitch muscles which should only fire briefly anyway. Trying to extend their firing is the precise opposite of what "quick-twitch" means.

Thank you very much.
 
Intention—to get the club to and though the ball—is the key.

Often, this intention is sub-conscious, but the application of the clubhead to the ball, through the hands, is what sets in motion all the accels and decels.

But the body positioning that needs to assist all of this proper intention, usually has to be trained.

Hit the ball the best I have in long time, thanks to Brian and others on here.
 
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Brian, I'm wondering if you ever got to speak to Foley on the "pivot controls the club face" comment? Just curious.
 
SF has talked about this for years but I'm sure his new AMM suit is shedding some light on the pivot breaking/slowing.
 
Intention—to get the club to and though the ball—is the key.

Often, this intention is sub-conscious, but the application of the clubhead to the ball, through the hands, is what sets in motion all the accels and decels.

But the body positioning that needs to assist all of this proper intention, usually has to be trained.

Brian, I distinctly remember having this discussion with you at the first Anti-Summit about acceleration through impact. At the time you were saying it's not important, now you are. What changed?

(BTW, this is not about being right vs being wrong. I just want to know what the key revelation is that changed everything for you.)
 

dbl

New
In this thread with the famous Rory pic and graph, Brian is showing torques, and torques are "force at a distance" and force is related to accelerations. So into impact there are decelerations going on (or accelerations in an opposite sense (once the zero line is hit) perhaps one would say) Although note singularly, Gamma has grown to be positive. These motions and forces are serving to provide max CHS (velocity).

http://www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/16997-wheres-torque-brian-manzella.html
 
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