For all those that share Brian's "50 lb. goal" in 2008

Status
Not open for further replies.
Insulin also stimulates the formation of glycogen from glucose. This is the primary place that dietary glucose goes intitially. Now if you are eating excess carbohydrates, to the point that your glycogen stores are maxed out THEN the excess carbohydrates are stored as fat. Therefore your number 9 point only applies when you are already overeating. It takes alot more time to break down fat for energy then to break down glycogen for energy. It makes no sense that you would want to have almost no glycogen stores(which is what happens after a short time on the Atkins diet) because you wouldn't have any way of generating quick energy. This is why people often feel sluggish on Atkins.
 

Bronco Billy

New member
World Class Athletes......

Insulin also stimulates the formation of glycogen from glucose. This is the primary place that dietary glucose goes intitially. Now if you are eating excess carbohydrates, to the point that your glycogen stores are maxed out THEN the excess carbohydrates are stored as fat. Therefore your number 9 point only applies when you are already overeating. It takes alot more time to break down fat for energy then to break down glycogen for energy. It makes no sense that you would want to have almost no glycogen stores(which is what happens after a short time on the Atkins diet) because you wouldn't have any way of generating quick energy. This is why people often feel sluggish on Atkins.

This Glycogen Deficiency Only Occurs in Highly Trained Athletes such as WORLD CLASS Marathoners, Bikers, TriAthletes, Etc... Carb Loaded Sports Drinks Touted to the NON WORLD CLASS Masses only Makes them Fatter Not Faster..... I Have Been on the Atkins Diet for 8 Years and have NEVER Felt Sluggish..... I Guess I am Not World Class........:)
 
This Glycogen Deficiency Only Occurs in Highly Trained Athletes such as WORLD CLASS Marathoners, Bikers, TriAthletes, Etc... Carb Loaded Sports Drinks Touted to the NON WORLD CLASS Masses only Makes them Fatter Not Faster..... I Have Been on the Atkins Diet for 8 Years and have NEVER Felt Sluggish..... I Guess I am Not World Class........:)
you have no idea what you are talking about.

glycogen deficiency does NOT only occur in world class athletes.

anyone who participates in endurance sports (e.g. long distance running, cycling, rowing, etc.) will know what I'm talking about.

Of course, if you do a 5km run once a month, you dont need to carb load.

But you dont need to be WORLD CLASS (2-3 sessions per day, 6 days per week, at world class level).

Bronco, what endurance sports have you done to a moderately high level? What is your body fat percentage? How heavy are you?
 

Bronco Billy

New member
Vitals.....

:cool:
you have no idea what you are talking about.

glycogen deficiency does NOT only occur in world class athletes.

anyone who participates in endurance sports (e.g. long distance running, cycling, rowing, etc.) will know what I'm talking about.

Of course, if you do a 5km run once a month, you dont need to carb load.

But you dont need to be WORLD CLASS (2-3 sessions per day, 6 days per week, at world class level).

Bronco, what endurance sports have you done to a moderately high level? What is your body fat percentage? How heavy are you?

When I was Younger pre Atkins.... I ran 5 miles a day for several Years.... then 3 miles a day for several years.... I always exercised 1/2 to 1 hr a day Mostly aerobic most of My Life..... I own a $2500 Stairmaster which I used Post Atkins among other activities... the stairmaster is for Sale.... It is Terrific and in Terrific shape.... PM if Interested.... The Last 4 months i've Ridden my Nautilus Bent Stationary Bike 40 Mins a day..... I see you haven't read the Thread...No Interest till Now????? I plan on doing SERIOUS Touring on my Pedal Wheel Chair up there in the Left Corner..... I am 6' 1" and weigh 190# ..... Body Fat..... I have no Idea.... I am not Fat and in pretty dam Good Shape compared to the rest of the World..... My Resting Heart Rate is 60 or Lower........Now Let's Hear Your Vitals.....Have a Great Day......:)
 
I want your recumbent!!! I wouldn't make it out of my neighborhood. My street looks like this VvV . Hills hills hills.

BTW not to offend anyone... Endurance sports are for girls! Real men enjoy anaerobic activities like running a touchdown, chasing women, and running from angry boyfriends. Sprinters are sexier than distance runners, and have more lean muscle mass. Plenty of fat joggers... a fat sprinter? Noway!
 

Bronco Billy

New member
Catrike Trail.....

I want your recumbent!!! I wouldn't make it out of my neighborhood. My street looks like this VvV . Hills hills hills.

BTW not to offend anyone... Endurance sports are for girls! Real men enjoy anaerobic activities like running a touchdown, chasing women, and running from angry boyfriends. Sprinters are sexier than distance runners, and have more lean muscle mass. Plenty of fat joggers... a fat sprinter? Noway!

You Are a Good Man......

Cat Trail....

T3_jpg.jpg
 
This Glycogen Deficiency Only Occurs in Highly Trained Athletes such as WORLD CLASS Marathoners, Bikers, TriAthletes, Etc... Carb Loaded Sports Drinks Touted to the NON WORLD CLASS Masses only Makes them Fatter Not Faster..... I Have Been on the Atkins Diet for 8 Years and have NEVER Felt Sluggish..... I Guess I am Not World Class........:)

So you think that normal people have their glycogen stores at 100% all day long everyday so that anytime they eat carbohydrates they automatically turn to fat? Really? When you are using that three wheeled bike you are getting your energy from glycogen during about the first 20 minutes. After that fat starts to be burned for energy. Thats why you don't lose fat doing your routine of 4 ten minute sets. You are never hitting the point where your body realizes that the activity is going to continue(i.e. the point where it starts to conserve glycogen and use fat for energy; the body needs to conserve glycogen because the brain has to have glucose to function, if theres only fat available then you have to go into ketosis, which is what happens on Atkins).
 

Bronco Billy

New member
Medicine man or Nutritionist.......

So you think that normal people have their glycogen stores at 100% all day long everyday so that anytime they eat carbohydrates they automatically turn to fat? Really? When you are using that three wheeled bike you are getting your energy from glycogen during about the first 20 minutes. After that fat starts to be burned for energy. Thats why you don't lose fat doing your routine of 4 ten minute sets. You are never hitting the point where your body realizes that the activity is going to continue(i.e. the point where it starts to conserve glycogen and use fat for energy; the body needs to conserve glycogen because the brain has to have glucose to function, if theres only fat available then you have to go into ketosis, which is what happens on Atkins).

Interesting..... I Totally Don't Agree with you on the Low Fat/High Carb Diet..... But You seem to be Very Knowlegeable...... Care to share Your Background?
 

Bronco Billy

New member
War.........

man with access to a nutrition text book

I Hope Your Beliefs are Treating you Well..... You are a Good Soldier and Fight the Battle Well..... Your Generals will be Imprisoned and Executed when the Battle is Over..... You will be Decorated and Allowed to Walk Free.......
 
Wow, it's amazing the heat that diet generates as a topic. It's like religion.

For what it's worth, although I think Taubes' ten points contain many important nuggets of scientific truth (with the key essentials related to carbohydrate intake being the primary source of becoming or remaining fat and the relation to diabetes - its not the fat in your diet making you fat or keeping you fat, its the carbs). Some of those points will no doubt be wrong, some will be a little off, and some will be need to be more nuanced to be correct. That's how science evolves. Just like some elements of TGM orthodoxy turn out not to apply or to describe reality although certain other basic principles. But the key point is that the generally accepted wisdom about diet will not work for many people to allow them to lose a large amount of weight and improve their health because the general wisdom is severely flawed. The chances of losing 50 lbs following the food pyramid and the generally accepted wisdom ("a few less calories, a little more activity) are roughly the same chance that someone who is an 18-handicapper has to become a scratch golfer by reading Golf Digest tips.

I do think one of the primary weaknesses of Taubes' book have been zeroed in on by several here and relates to his pronouncements related more to exercise, which the book only touches on very briefly and very superficially, in my opinion. If you are going to do serious, long-term aerobic exercise over several hours and think you can do it without consuming more carbs, you are wrong. The Zone, which also is very Taubes like in its underlying view of carbohydrate effect, gives you an idea of the amount of carbs you have to consume to do prolonged aerobic exercise. For that very rare person doing high-level activity, the amount of extra carbs you have to take in to sustain high level effort over a prolonged period is very large. I have a friend training for the amateur stage of the Tour de France (L'Etape) this summer who works with a Carmichael systems trainer (same group Lance armstrong used), and he has learned he has to take in 90 grams of carbs an hour in order to sustain his long training rides of 3-4 hours. But the average person riding around in their car who drinks Gatorade because Lance or Tiger does is seriously deluded.

There is even an effect with respect to very moderate activity/exercise. Even for someone like myself just going out in winter, trying to walk 18 holes in the cold, I learned several months ago that I could barely finish 18 holes without feeling sick without having a small additional amount (20-30 grams) of carbohydrates.

But if you have been overweight for a long time, and what you have been trying doesn't work, try something else. Pay attention to people who have had some success. "More willpower" in applying a scientifically flawed model will not yield better results.
 
Last edited:

Bronco Billy

New member
Golf is NOT an Aerobic Activity.....

Wow, it's amazing the heat that diet generates as a topic. It's like religion.

For what it's worth, although I think Taubes' ten points contain many important nuggets of scientific truth (with the key essentials related to carbohydrate intake being the primary source of becoming or remaining fat and the relation to diabetes - its not the fat in your diet making you fat or keeping you fat, its the carbs). Some of those points will no doubt be wrong, some will be a little off, and some will be need to be more nuanced to be correct. That's how science evolves. Just like some elements of TGM orthodoxy turn out not to apply or to describe reality although certain other basic principles. But the key point is that the generally accepted wisdom about diet will not work for many people to allow them to lose a large amount of weight and improve their health because the general wisdom is severely flawed. The chances of losing 50 lbs following the food pyramid and the generally accepted wisdom ("a few less calories, a little more activity) are roughly the same chance that someone who is an 18-handicapper has to become a scratch golfer by reading Golf Digest tips.

I do think one of the primary weaknesses of Taubes' book have been zeroed in on by several here and relates to his pronouncements related more to exercise, which the book only touches on very briefly and very superficially, in my opinion. If you are going to do serious, long-term aerobic exercise over several hours and think you can do it without consuming more carbs, you are wrong. The Zone, which also is very Taubes like in its underlying view of carbohydrate effect, gives you an idea of the amount of carbs you have to consume to do prolonged aerobic exercise. For that very rare person doing high-level activity, the amount of extra carbs you have to take in to sustain high level effort over a prolonged period is very large. I have a friend training for the amateur stage of the Tour de France (L'Etape) this summer who works with a Carmichael systems trainer (same group Lance armstrong used), and he has learned he has to take in 90 grams of carbs an hour in order to sustain his long training rides of 3-4 hours. But the average person riding around in their car who drinks Gatorade because Lance or Tiger does is seriously deluded.

There is even an effect with respect to very moderate activity/exercise. Even for someone like myself just going out in winter, trying to walk 18 holes in the cold, I learned several months ago that I could barely finish 18 holes without feeling sick without having a small additional amount (20-30 grams) of carbohydrates.
But if you have been overweight for a long time, and what you have been trying doesn't work, try something else. Pay attention to people who have had some success. "More willpower" in applying a scientifically flawed model will not yield better results.

On the Golf Course You are Having an Insulin Reaction Caused by Your Fat Body..... Then You are Feeding it with More Carbs(Sugar) to Short Term Appease the Insulin Reaction..... In Your Condition 20-30 Carbs is Probably your Daily Limit..... Taubes is RIGHT on All 10 Counts..... With this Type of Thinking you are on a Spiral to Hell and You Will be Fat the Rest of Your Life..... Your Doctor Wife is Wrong about the Non Validity of Taubes and Atkins and Wrong for Counseling You and Others in this MisInformation...... Have a Great Day with Your New Found Knowledge.......:)
 
Last edited:

hcw

New
Be careful this summer...

On the Golf Course You are Having an Insulin Reaction Caused by Your Fat Body..... Then You are Feeding it with More Carbs(Sugar) to Short Term Appease the Insulin Reaction..... In Your Condition 20-30 Carbs is Probably your Daily Limit..... Taubes is RIGHT on All 10 Counts..... With this Type of Thinking you are on a Spiral to Hell and You Will be Fat the Rest of Your Life..... Your Doctor Wife is Wrong about the Non Validity of Taubes and Atkins and Wrong for Counseling You and Others in this MisInformation...... Have a Great Day with Your New Found Knowledge.......:)

...'cause if you ride that trike anything like you post, somebody gonna run you right off the road into sumthin...or just flat run you over...just sayin...
 
"But the key point is that the generally accepted wisdom about diet will not work for many people to allow them to lose a large amount of weight and improve their health because the general wisdom is severely flawed. The chances of losing 50 lbs following the food pyramid and the generally accepted wisdom ("a few less calories, a little more activity) are roughly the same chance that someone who is an 18-handicapper has to become a scratch golfer by reading Golf Digest tips."

Errrr...wrong again. People don't lose weight with conventional wisdom and the food pyramid BECAUSE THEY DON'T FOLLOW IT. People cheat their diets and then complain that they don't lose weight.

IMO talk about golf swing theory reads more like religion than this. Nutrition is based on science(some good, some bad unfortunately). The golf swing is a purely man made motion that can only partly be explained in scientific terms.
 

tank

New
Wow, it's amazing the heat that diet generates as a topic. It's like religion.

...'cause if you ride that trike anything like you post, somebody gonna run you right off the road into sumthin...or just flat run you over...just sayin...


Oh the irony.

Those two statements in your consecutive posts made me laugh out loud. Pretty funny stuff.
 
Bronco Billy - you are frickin' killin' me here, man. Hey, I'm on your side, for the most part. :)

The Zone is just Atkins/Taubes for very active people. Same principles. Do you think athletes riding stages of 130 mile bike race are just so fat they are getting hungry? They have to have access to energy to finish a race. Tiger isn't eating a piece of fruit on the 16th hole because he's too fat. The critic above who stated that Atkins people sometime experience serious loss of energy/fatigue issues is correct although on balance every day they experience a lot less fatigue than people who constantly overconsume carbs and feel the sugar highs and lows. You probably regulate better than most and are closer to a balance than the people who still need to lose significant weight.

Exercise increases the amount of energy you can consume without gaining weight.Taubes said exercise doesn't work for most people to lose weight because they get hungry. That's what he says. A more precise formulation would be that exercise increases the number of carb grams you can eat before you stop or slow the fat burning for energy process that causes you to lose weight and once people are hungry because of exercise they overestimate how many carb grams they need to get back to zero where they can burn fat instead of store fat. The Zone gives you a good idea of that energy/food equation.

All of human nutritional science is rudimentary compared with theoretical physics, it is ridiculous to think it won't be refined significiantly. The back and forth between various camps with various dietary studies is a part of that evolutionary process. Newton was wrong in part, so was Einstein, so I'm gonna' guess Taubes has a least a few errors and that he would be the first to say that's true (even if the key premises turn out to be true).

The good news is that not all of science of physics has to be know to construct an airplane, and not all of nutritional science had to be understood to learn how to lose or gain weight.
 

Bronco Billy

New member
Intellectual Honesty........

"But the key point is that the generally accepted wisdom about diet will not work for many people to allow them to lose a large amount of weight and improve their health because the general wisdom is severely flawed. The chances of losing 50 lbs following the food pyramid and the generally accepted wisdom ("a few less calories, a little more activity) are roughly the same chance that someone who is an 18-handicapper has to become a scratch golfer by reading Golf Digest tips."

Errrr...wrong again. People don't lose weight with conventional wisdom and the food pyramid BECAUSE THEY DON'T FOLLOW IT. People cheat their diets and then complain that they don't lose weight.

IMO talk about golf swing theory reads more like religion than this. Nutrition is based on science(some good, some bad unfortunately). The golf swing is a purely man made motion that can only partly be explained in scientific terms.

You and I Disagree to the 10th Degree on the Main Issue..... It Seems to Me that at Least we both Totally Agree on the Virtue of Intellectual Honesty......I could be Wrong Though...... The Man Introduces a Thread that Promotes Taubes which The Food Pyramid is the AntiThesis..... Then He Proceeds to Diss Both Positions....... Have a Great Day.....:)
 

Bronco Billy

New member
War......

Wow, it's amazing the heat that diet generates as a topic. It's like religion.


...'cause if you ride that trike anything like you post, somebody gonna run you right off the road into sumthin...or just flat run you over...just sayin...


Oh the irony.

Those two statements in your consecutive posts made me laugh out loud. Pretty funny stuff.

Those two statements in your consecutive posts made me laugh out loud. Pretty funny stuff.

War is Hell......:mad:

Ps. That's How They Got Patten..... "Car Accident....."
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top