Handle dragging "just when I thought I was out they drag me back in"
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Except Brian said Spieth is not a handle dragger, after I pointed out that he was.
Say what? FLW or Arched Left Wrist through impact is necessary and is there in all good swings, regardless of amount of #3 at address or impact.
I'm still unconvinced on that. Agree with Brian. Not necessary at all. Only for people that has no room due to too long radius and small accum 3 travel.
How about posting a Youtube link of a Swingvision video showing a tour player bending his left wrist through the impact interval.
If the left wrist bends, the clubhead backs up because the left arm and shaft seeks the inline condition - a Physics fact. See Cochran & Stobbs, Jurgensen, Dr David Williams science based golf books.
Virtuoso
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Can you show me where in those books you saw that the clubhead backs up if the left wrist bends?
spider
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I've seen this graph before. I can't figure it out.
Clubhead backs up? What does that mean? Clubhead slows down?
When left wrist is already extended a bit at impact, it just means its already past and has already sought the inline condition, like what the left wrist graph Brian posted. The Law of the Flail has already been done, satisfied. The "Physics fact" has already been satisfied. Does Physics say the inline condition must be maintained or kept, and prevent further uncock and roll of the left wrist?
In fact what you're saying is against the Law of the Flail because "trying" or actively flattening or bowing the left wrist will slow down the uncocking and rolling process of left wrist joint and therefore clubhead. That is why a flail's coupling joint is always a soft or loose material like a cowhide or "loosey-goosey" chain. "Harden" the coupling joint of the flail and you'll see it slows down substantially, almost becoming like a long stick, and will become useless as a flail. Might as well just get a long stick.
Again, FLW or ALW is just to adjust shaft lean and low point when your arc is small, which is what HK and BD has. A zeroed out accum 3 angle has very small arc, hence your AoA is steep and rate of closure very quick, hence clubhead goes down steeply, and goes up and left immediately. Clubhead travel for a given left wrist roll is substantially shorter. To compensate for these, you have to "delay" left wrist extension; otherwise the sweetspot will touch down too early and then go up and left immediately; hence the FLW concept.
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Green--extension to flexion at shaft parallel in downswing, then gies to extension slowly after that.
Red--cocked to fully uncocked after impact.
Blue/violet--pronated on top, becomes even more pronated coming down (transition, layoff), then supinates to square at impact, afterwhich pronates really fast relative to measuring equipment (stays square relative to body).
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Yes, slows down.
A persistent, logical, knowledge-seeker like yourself should be able to deduce that the club head has to slow because the shaft and left arm are seeking the in-line condition after the left wrist bends, from information in one or more of those texts.
spider
New
Question about blue/violet. I thought the wrist would supinate to layoff club than pronate to impact.
Sorry Brian I just had to reply to this!
I just read a post in another forum where someone is still upset about handle dragging and claims that Brian teaches kinetic and the handle dragging is from kinematic data. Maybe Brian can address this, From my point of view what one teaches and uses and how data is gathered can be different.... anyways this is the same person who swore argued that there is no handle dragging , it doesn't exist ,Brian made it up and Brian can't see it. He told me Brian doesn't know what the body does in the swing yet they make fun of Brian for his giving his students " the business".... i had to laugh and I'm still laughing!
What's amusing is this person just admitted that yes there is such a thing as handle dragging... the question that I would pose to this person is if Brian couldn't see it how did he know it existed, which now i believe they can measure it. I mean now I read everywhere that golfers themselves are talking about how they handle drag. Plus I'm thinking Nesbit knows a thing or two.
They all must be imagining it...right Clay!
I just read a post in another forum where someone is still upset about handle dragging and claims that Brian teaches kinetic and the handle dragging is from kinematic data. Maybe Brian can address this, From my point of view what one teaches and uses and how data is gathered can be different.... anyways this is the same person who swore argued that there is no handle dragging , it doesn't exist ,Brian made it up and Brian can't see it. He told me Brian doesn't know what the body does in the swing yet they make fun of Brian for his giving his students " the business".... i had to laugh and I'm still laughing!
What's amusing is this person just admitted that yes there is such a thing as handle dragging... the question that I would pose to this person is if Brian couldn't see it how did he know it existed, which now i believe they can measure it. I mean now I read everywhere that golfers themselves are talking about how they handle drag. Plus I'm thinking Nesbit knows a thing or two.
They all must be imagining it...right Clay!
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Virtuoso
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Numerous times you've risen to full height, puffed your chest, and made a grand sweeping statement. Then I ask you to give me a simple reference and you fold like a cheap pup tent in a tornado.
Not true at all mp29. Clubhead goes faster when the left wrist is freely unhinging, BOTH freely ulnar deviating and extending, like an oily hinge. Any hinge needs to be like that.
Law of the flail - the swingle accelerates til it catches up with the handle at the in-line condition, then when the swingle passes the handle, it backs up as it again seeks the in-line condition. In golf, the left arm is the handle and the shaft is the swingle, and you'd better hustle the butt of the club so the club head gets to the ball before the 1st in-line condition happens.
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