How far left should you swing?

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Brian Manzella

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This particular shot has a (Resultant/True) Path of 0.9° inside-out, and a Clubface of 0.4° open, or 0.5° closed to the path for a very slight draw.

Why not show a 0.0° path?

Oh, in time we will, but I used this one to show the stupidity of the sect of folks that say you shouldn't swing left past low point, and that somehow this is "Avoidance."

I say, "You don't want to see a dead straight shot, because the club will swing even further left."


Hi, I'm Brian Manzella, and I blow people up for a living. ;):D
 
Nice video. I think one of the things that intimidated me about the concept of 'swinging left' was the possible OTT move and even if you did not come OTT, it just seemed so foreign to be swinging this far left. But if all things being 'square' and the angle of attack with the iron is say 4*, then the amount needed to swing left is 2* to hit it straight, really 2* degrees while important to swing left that much, really isn't a large amount of swinging to the left of the target.

I think that's where many people get screwed up and I had to understand that it's not as drastic as i thought. Especially if your angle of attack is much shallower, like 2* or less. Very miniscule amount of swinging left is needed.




3JACK
 

roll - gybe

New member
Brian, could you clarify what "swinging left" means? I see that term a lot here, and it seems relative to me.

Your swing looks pretty on plane, so I'm left to wonder if you are trying to tell people they don't need to hit the big slinger like Lucas Glover (I think he would be an example).

Does "swinging left" mean bending the plane? Or does it mean positioning your feet to the right of the target?

Does it just mean that that since there is some "out" left in downward blow, you need to be aware of it?

Thanks for helping me get it. Hope I don't get blown up or anything.
 
Nice video. I think one of the things that intimidated me about the concept of 'swinging left' was the possible OTT move and even if you did not come OTT, it just seemed so foreign to be swinging this far left. But if all things being 'square' and the angle of attack with the iron is say 4*, then the amount needed to swing left is 2* to hit it straight, really 2* degrees while important to swing left that much, really isn't a large amount of swinging to the left of the target.

I think that's where many people get screwed up and I had to understand that it's not as drastic as i thought. Especially if your angle of attack is much shallower, like 2* or less. Very miniscule amount of swinging left is needed.



3JACK


It feels like a whole lot a left if you've been swinging too far to the right. I also feel like I'm pulling an OTT move but if I look at it on video I don't see it. The swing looks pretty orthodox.

Feel vs Reel is a Motha F*&%*
 
Brian, could you clarify what "swinging left" means? I see that term a lot here, and it seems relative to me.

Your swing looks pretty on plane, so I'm left to wonder if you are trying to tell people they don't need to hit the big slinger like Lucas Glover (I think he would be an example).

Does "swinging left" mean bending the plane? Or does it mean positioning your feet to the right of the target?

Does it just mean that that since there is some "out" left in downward blow, you need to be aware of it?

Thanks for helping me get it. Hope I don't get blown up or anything.

All it means is that your planeline is some degree (depending on how much down you hit) left of your targetline. In order to hit it straight (when you hit down on it) you basically need to hit a small push.
 
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Oh, were you trying to swing left, or did you say that was your next swing? ;)

Maybe you should try using your Pivot to snap your Kinetic Chain, and to assist your arms, hands and club. On second thought, there's a book about Golf that can teach you to simultaneously trace the base line of the inclined plane with both your right forearm flying wedge and the clubhead. :)
 
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Swing and a miss

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Oh, were you trying to swing left, or did you say that was your next swing? ;)

Maybe you should try using your Pivot to snap your Kinetic Chain, and to assist your arms, hands and club. On second thought, there's a book about Golf that can teach you to simultaneously trace the base line of the inclined plane with both your right forearm flying wedge and the clubhead. :)

The camera is obviously on the target line. Therefore the look is about right.
 
Oh, were you trying to swing left, or did you say that was your next swing? ;)

Maybe you should try using your Pivot to snap your Kinetic Chain, and to assist your arms, hands and club. On second thought, there's a book about Golf that can teach you to simultaneously trace the base line of the inclined plane with both your right forearm flying wedge and the clubhead. :)

uh-oh...
 
The camera is obviously on the target line. Therefore the look is about right.

I know. Thanks for noticing.

It's a very On Plane swing. It just isn't left as far as the TGM Sect is concerned IMHO. I can ask again, but I did speak with some of them during our morning rituals at the Monastery.

Is this considered left by the "D" Plane theory?
 
Brian, could you clarify what "swinging left" means? I see that term a lot here, and it seems relative to me.

Your swing looks pretty on plane, so I'm left to wonder if you are trying to tell people they don't need to hit the big slinger like Lucas Glover (I think he would be an example).

Does "swinging left" mean bending the plane? Or does it mean positioning your feet to the right of the target?

Does it just mean that that since there is some "out" left in downward blow, you need to be aware of it?

Thanks for helping me get it. Hope I don't get blown up or anything.

All I can tell you is this...
I am a mid-handicapper - who was / is bringing the club wayyy to far to the inside on the takeaway, and so in my finish the butt of the club was no where near the target line...

I saw Damon, and one thing I asked him was to help me with my 4 wood. Damon watched me hit a couple - pretty bad as I recall - then he moved out maybe 10 yards ahead of me and a little to the left. ( I was scared I was going to kill him lol! ) He then tells me to finish my swing at him. I didn't set up at him, but finished aimed at him. If I'm not describing this correctly, I'm sure Damon will jump in and tell you exactly what happened;)
I hammered ( for me ) that 4 wood, and the butt of the club was much more in line to the target! I have been hammering the 4 wood ever since, with an occasional pull.
 
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Oh, were you trying to swing left, or did you say that was your next swing? ;)

Maybe you should try using your Pivot to snap your Kinetic Chain, and to assist your arms, hands and club. On second thought, there's a book about Golf that can teach you to simultaneously trace the base line of the inclined plane with both your right forearm flying wedge and the clubhead. :)

I assume that was all in jest and you understand the 2d drawing limitation in a 3d world.
 
I assume that was all in jest and you understand the 2d drawing limitation in a 3d world.

As was the "Monastery" comment in an earlier post. As was Brian's "Sect" comment in his post.

His Right forearm Wedge and Clubhead have traced the same Plane line. Poetic.


Another jest. Why is this swing considered left?
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
LA, da, dee, de Da, da, da....

Brian, could you clarify what "swinging left" means? I see that term a lot here, and it seems relative to me.

Everything is "relative" to something.

But the term "Swing Left" means exactly what the words imply—if you are swinging too far to the right.

In a world where...

• Goofy people stand up at seminars and FUTILELY try to argue with me that the D-Plane doesn't exists by swinging putters in-to-out 45° with a square face and crying out: "See!"

• "Dinosaurs" are taking TrackMan out to the range and trying to prove TrackMan and the D-Plane wrong because they sell the BACKWARD-ARSE idea that an 11° in-to-out path could make the ball go straight.

• In this world, where folks are NOT TRYING TO LEARN WHAT IS ACTUALLY CORRECT, but hanging on to goofy ideas because THAT is what they are selling.

Someone—and that someone would be me—needs to show people the TRUTH.

Here is the STONE COLD TRUTH!!!!

The club doesn't go out to the right past impact more than a FRACTION on a small draw (say 3° inside-out path and 0° "plane line" and 1.5° open face).

The club DOES NOT GO OUT TO THE RIGHT at all, post impact on a straight ball.

Now the question may arise to thinking folks, who in the heck is saying the club should go way ass out to the right post impact on a normal sorta straight shot?

Ah....

I give you—ladies and gentlemen of the jury—exhibit A:

blownupforever.jpg


The swing is Derek Sanders, a student of mine, and the Head Pro at English Turn. HE won two big section events this year under my tutelage. I have hundreds of good iron shots/players on the Casio, but Derek has the most centered pivot, something the book literalists love.

So, the real "GEOMETRY of the CIRCLE—Golf version" is the yellow circle around Derek's actual swing.

The "false" geometry is the one that the guy is "drawing on the easel."

The one with the white ellipse under it is Derek's real geometry sized to show the difference.

What is the point?

The point is that Golfing Machine Book Literalists love to draw this false geometry.

Why do you say it is false?

Because, if you had the amount of downward and outward that the "easel geometry" suggests, you'd take a chocolate layer cake sized divot and hook it around the Washington monument.

Read this very closely:

If you swing perfectly on plane, and you hit down even a little, and the "Plane Line" is at the target, you will have a path of about 3-6° outward, and you will hit a big right to left shot.

THE BALL CANNOT AND WILL NOT EVER FLY STRAIGHT DOING THIS!!!

Ever.

Ever.

Ever.

But it could draw 30 feet and go in the hole.

So?

So, this:

The AMOUNT that from an ON THE TARGET LINE VIDEO or eyeball, would show, even for the "straight plane line inside-out path big draw hole-n-one," would still have the club SWINGING LEFT PRETTY QUICKLY.

I have that video as well and will post that up later.

Your swing looks pretty on plane, so I'm left to wonder if you are trying to tell people they don't need to hit the big slinger like Lucas Glover (I think he would be an example).

We are talking about how fast the club goes left post impact EVEN FOR Lucas Glover-type big slingers.

Does "swinging left" mean bending the plane?

It means how MUCH and HOW QUICKLY the golf clubhead swings LEFT OF THE TARGET LINE post impact.

Period.

Or does it mean positioning your feet to the right of the target?

WTF?

Does it just mean that that since there is some "out" left in downward blow, you need to be aware of it?

Listen closely...

THERE IS NO OUTWARD, NONE, ZERO, GOOSE EGG, OUGHT, ZILCH, outward after a straight shot.

In fact, on a perfectly straight ball, the club is going left almost INSTANTLY after impact.

And for those who hit a "straight at the target plane line draw," the "out" left in a downward blow is SO SMALL, it would hurt a lot of folks' feelings.

It feels like a whole lot a left if you've been swinging too far to the right. I also feel like I'm pulling an OTT move but if I look at it on video I don't see it. The swing looks pretty orthodox.

Feel vs Reel is a Motha F*&%*

Exactly.

But real is a MFer for some folks as well.

All it means is that your planeline is some degree (depending on how much down you hit) left of your targetline. In order to hit it straight (when you hit down on it) you basically need to hit a small push.

It ain't a push.

BM.jpg


Oh, were you trying to swing left, or did you say that was your next swing? ;)

That one was slightly to the right, Darryl.

And, BTW, drawing a plane angle line is USELESS with that camera angle.

Wait until you see the "Straight Plane Line" one. No offense.

Just trying to spread some TRUTH in a world of "false physics and geometry."
 

ggsjpc

New
Absolutely right on.

Just add unless you hit it in the heel.

I know you are talking about solid contact in all your posts but some dufus will chime in and say I saw the ball go straight with an on plane swing. You might have but you hit in the heel.
 

Dariusz J.

New member
THERE IS NO OUTWARD, NONE, ZERO, GOOSE EGG, OUGHT, ZILCH, outward after a straight shot.

In fact, on a perfectly straight ball, the club is going left almost INSTANTLY after impact.

And for those who hit a "straight at the target plane line draw," the "out" left in a downward blow is SO SMALL, it would hurt a lot of folks' feelings.

Brian, so do you want to say that the ideal direction of a divot in "true geometry motion" is almost always a very slight curve left ? say, while generalizing, from a very very slight curve (almost straight) in case of a push draw to a visible curve left in case of pull fade ? If yes, it is what I tend to observe without Trackman.

Cheers
 
Everything is "relative" to something.

But the term "Swing Left" means exactly what the words imply—if you are swinging too far to the right.

Are you kidding me? That's your answer? That's BULL. Your answer doesn't make any sense.

Left is left of the plane. It always has been and always will be. Swinging left isn't a TGM term. Never was.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
The Answers!!!

Everything is "relative" to something.

But the term "Swing Left" means exactly what the words imply—if you are swinging too far to the right.

Are you kidding me? That's your answer?

That's BULL. Your answer doesn't make any sense.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I was honestly trying to answer the question, "What does the term, 'swing left' mean?"

I stand by my answer, as far as how it it used by teachers and players out in the world of golf.

To me, "SWING LEFT" means simply that the club needs to swing left of the target line through the ball on every useable shot, from hard fade, to sweeping draw.

That ain't bull, but it may be hard to swallow.

Also, swinging left has another connotation—and that is that the baseline of the swing, the direction of the swing, the horizontal plane angle of the swing, or plane line of the swing (they all mean the same thing), absolutely has to be POINTED/AIMed or DIRECTED to the left to hit the ball straight on shots off of the ground.

All the time.

And that too, could be accurately called—"Swinging Left."


Left is left of the plane. It always has been and always will be. Swinging left isn't a TGM term. Never was.

I use terms that help my students understand what I am talking about, and ones that help teachers who come on this to understand how to help their students improve.

In my own teaching, I use the "Yellow Brick Road"—the exact visual representation of the clubhead path of the desired shot for THAT particular golfer, on the ground. The "Yellow Brick Road" is also used in my teaching for the sequence of hands, hips, and club through impact.

I couldn't give a rat's ass if swinging left isn't a TGM term, and to be honest, what you or anyone else thinks LEFT is.

Left is left of the target line, and all the things I said above.

Re-read it a few times. It is REAL SCIENCE. It isn't going anywhere, it can't be defeated.

There are some folks that need to get their heads out of the sand, no doubt about that.
 
swing radius

Another aspect re to swinging left in contrast to TGM like teaching of purposely swinging both arms completely straight just past impact has to do with clubhead speed. If not mistaken Brian in the past referred to the latter as swinging up the left arm.

Swinging the TGM way is a definite power loss situation as it increases the effective swing radius. It is typical situation of taking effect for cause. Old instruction saying to chase the ball after impact has a similar result.

It is easy to verify. Just measure the clubhead speed swinging to the left past impact and compare it to purposely striving to obtain a straight in line condition for left arm and club shaft, past impact.

Swinging on plane and swinging left are notions strongly related. To swing on plane you have to swing left and it has to be programmed before impact.
 
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