Ideas about The Release - a video by Brian Manzella (comments/reviews)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Really good post. This is exactly what I have had to do. I don't even think I am releasing the right way yet as I have had to focus 99% of my attention to the toss (for me it's actually a toss and stretch) first.

I would bet that is the reason I haven't yet seen a big pickup in distance with my irons.

Put it this way. If you want a high soft floating bunker or lob shot, you would drag down and do a similar release very quickly. This is what's happening to those experiencing a loss of distance in the irons. Putting the cart before the horse...kinda looking for a shortcut. Make sure you do things in order, even though for some you have to go release backwards.
 
Another thought:

Do you think this also requires a change of mindset for some? I mean, I feel I can do the out-toss, then go normal, and hit the ball decent with minimal shaft lean (and take no divot)... this hits the ball high but its consistent, straight and fairly far. Occasionally something might be hit a little thin (but still fly pretty well).

For people like me, is it just a case of committing to a later line up (which is tough because it feels 'wrong' compared to the first way) and maybe some more upward pull to keep from digging to China?
 
I'm having tremendous difficulty with this, for some reason...I know it's me making a total arse of understanding the information because I vaguely remember in the dim and distant past playing great golf feeling the way being described; however, I was at the range today and I just tried to let my left arm swing down like a metronome and, bloody hell, I could kinda feel what I was after. I'm now struggling to make sense of it, other than maybe my left side was pulling too much, and consequently the hands. Maybe? Anybody help me just a tad with this?
 
I don't know Drew... this deal has been like having cake and being able to eat it too (as I enjoy doing). I'm north of 40, very inflexible, bad back, overweight, but am still able to make the ball move fast(er) because of the very things Michael and Brian are teaching right now. I think this is key for hitting it big, and doing so without all the bodily trauma that it used to take.

I have gotten longer (not more flexible, not thinner, and not younger) since my lesson with Brian. Once you grasp/embrace the counter intuitiveness with the whole deal, it really becomes fun.

I think anyone who poopoos this without being a big hitter, because they think big hitters don't do this, is really missing the boat. If you're already a short knocker, what is there to lose? Not distance.

Completely agree with you mgranato. This video is not just for bombers or bomber wanna-be's but also people who just want to get longer, consistently and forget about who has the bigger stones. And as you say, for bombers who want to graduate from Atomic to Hydrogen, like you (I have seen your swing - impressive), this video will do you too.

I predict you are going to have a good golf life for the next 30 years. All those physical limitations you described were just going to get worse by staying with the old dogmas. From my vantage point of 65 I think this is maybe the best thing about the new swing.

As you say, "nothing to lose" for bombers, farts, short knockers all.

p.s. even though I disagree with a lot of what Jeffy says, he does know how to take the piss. His comment that BM's coming price increase will draw the old farts was funny.
 
meh - not sure what all the fuss is about between Jeffy's and Brian's posts. I saw maybe one substantive issue on which there seemed to be any real disagreement, and maybe not even that. Pivot rotation as a source of clubhead speed?

Questions of emphasis, and barbs on both sides - but no news and no biggie IMO.
 
meh - not sure what all the fuss is about between Jeffy's and Brian's posts. I saw maybe one substantive issue on which there seemed to be any real disagreement, and maybe not even that. Pivot rotation as a source of clubhead speed?

Questions of emphasis, and barbs on both sides - but no news and no biggie IMO.

Birly,

We don't yet know what Jeffy is proposing as an alternative so it is hard to know whether it is a big deal or not. Absent a video from jeffy maybe he could tell us what we should be doing differently and back it up with some science. Or we can wait for the anti-summit video.
 
Completely agree with you mgranato. This video is not just for bombers or bomber wanna-be's but also people who just want to get longer, consistently and forget about who has the bigger stones. And as you say, for bombers who want to graduate from Atomic to Hydrogen, like you (I have seen your swing - impressive), this video will do you too.

I predict you are going to have a good golf life for the next 30 years. All those physical limitations you described were just going to get worse by staying with the old dogmas. From my vantage point of 65 I think this is maybe the best thing about the new swing.

As you say, "nothing to lose" for bombers, farts, short knockers all.

p.s. even though I disagree with a lot of what Jeffy says, he does know how to take the piss. His comment that BM's coming price increase will draw the old farts was funny.

It's such a physically less stressful way to get'r done.

I haven't tuned in since page 3, I'll have to go back and see what's what.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Just for the record, Jeffy is about a 10 handicapper and a student of a competitor. He is also a lawyer.

Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it will help folks understand where he is coming from.

He has taken a mini-school from me and Tom Bartlett 5 or 6 years ago, and a couple of years ago a day and a half school with me & Mike Jacobs.
 
I KNEW he had to be a lawyer from his writing. Who else would base their arguments entirely on speculation, hearsay, and circumstantial evidence? Not that there's anything wrong with being a lawyer, it just explains ALOT about his arguing tactics.
 
Last edited:
Excellent video.. simply showed some of the things Brian and I worked on in September. I will say I hit the ball much more solid in my October PGT events and actually won some $$... of course, competition also brought back the old swing at times. :(

The most counter-intuitive portion of the video deals with the toss. I envision casting. But, according to those more in the know I will have to make sure I do a full turn (which, most times is my #1 nemesis) with my back to the target line. Correct?

Went to the RMU Dome this morning (before watching the last 15min). It took me nearly 100 balls before I realized I wasn't really doing something right.. I felt most of my hits were heavy.. pounded the mat.. knew I was too steep. In my efforts to focus on a slightly stronger grip and do a full turn, I forgot about the jump that Brian taught me. Did that and my shots were much better. Watching the remainder of the video this afternoon made me realize I had a steep attack because I was simply turning my shoulders flat through the swing (pulling?).

Back to the Dome on Thursday morning for another 2-3 hours.. will work on the toss (Kevin, that's a hint.. I'll buy lunch, too). I only hope there's no one near me, because it might get ugly with side-winders!

Questions - Is there a 'feel' to the toss that I should have? How do you guys tell yourself to fully turn since that appears to be key for the toss to be effective? Am I making sense? Am I missing something/anything?

Again, great video.
 

jeffy

Banned
Birly,

We don't yet know what Jeffy is proposing as an alternative so it is hard to know whether it is a big deal or not.

Seriously? You haven't been paying attention. The following from Jwat's thread is representative, plus, of course, my comments on Brian's video posted earlier.

I feel like I never turn my right rib cage or right shoulder around enough on my BS. Alot of the time I actually catch my right shoulder shrugging on the BS which totally stops my turn. But when I try and turn my right hip more around it seems like I reverse pivot even more.

What do you think the solution is to getting my right elbow out of my right side?

I like Brian's "four point program" for you. I'll add a couple comments of my own.

1. Find a way to turn your back to the target. Anyway you need to.

Obviously you need to work on this. It could be mental as much as physical. The age-old advice from "Five Lessons" of "pinched in right knee" and "restricted hips" has created generations of golfers that are afraid to let the right knee move away from the target (rotate externally) which all but the VERY most flexible need to do. Look at Kuchar's right knee:

Matttop.png


I try to do the same thing and even turn the right foot out to facilitate the turn (I'm 56, btw):

Screenshot2011-11-06at34831PM.jpg


Hell, Snead was as flexible as anybody and he did it, so you shouldn't be afraid to. You also might start with a little move into the back leg at the start of the backswing, kind of a back leg loading motion.

Something difficult for many is the concept of "internal rotation" of the right hip. This is basically the right hip rotating clockwise around the right femur. You don't let that happen. But, when you do that, the femoral head (the knob at the end of the femur) will shift backwards towards the target, what you may be feeling when you say "when I try and turn my right hip more around it seems like I reverse pivot even more". That's why a little move off the ball won't hurt you IF you allow the right hip go into internal rotation.

2. Keep your back turned to the target as long as long practically can, while your weight falls back toward the target.

A good thought here to try is to HOLD the right knee in place for a split second and start the downswing with just the left knee moving into the bow-legged position. Nicklaus is a great model:

Jackstartdown.png


The long drive guys exaggerate this, as we can see with Sadlowski:

Jamiefronflexed.png
Jamiebackflexed.png


3. Be as bent over your waist as you ever are in the swing when you add some ummph to the club between when your left arm is level and the club is parallel for the last time pre-impact.

This is pretty important: getting bent over at the waist with the knees flexed. You're an athlete, so I'll let you figure out how best to do it!

4. Recruit every fiber of your body to completely lose all of the forward bend you had, as you unwind some, and shift your center of gravity forward, assisting your arms to pull the club inward.

What Brian is saying in the first part is to use your posterior chain (the continuum of muscle and fascia that runs from the base of the neck to the ankles) to extend out of the bend or "jump" through impact. At the same time the legs should snap together. Again, Jamie does this to an extreme:

Jamiefronextended.png
Jamiebackextended.png


Squats, dead lifts, thrusters, box jumps, rowing, lunges all use the posterior chain: it is where the most power in the body comes from. So use it!
 
KGlennCole,

I had a number of issues I had to deal with related to being able to perform this when I initially met with Brian. We worked a few of them out in the lesson and I've continued to work it. The video has helped to distill some of my thoughts on this approach, among them being:

1) if you're not making a full turn you better pay lots of attention to not tugging. Even if I do make a full turn, as the club gets longer I need to really feel like my chest is still facing a bit to the right as I enter impact or it's going to be a bit of a wipe.

2) the toss has been mentioned in some other comments here and I'm getting a better feel for just how important it is. I don't feel like I can get normal at impact if the clubhead isn't really free-wheeling and I'm finding that making a more "aggressive" toss really helps with that. A less agressive toss and I feel like I HAVE to drag it at the bottom with no chance of pulling in toward me at that point.

Can't tell you how quick yet effortless the swing feels from the top when I hit it the best. Like a continuous throw from the top that I can pull against at the bottom.
 

EdZ

New
Brian - I appreciate how dedicated you are to continuing to present different ideas, as you always do well, and with a rare passion.

Are you familiar with John Dunigan?

I've not seen the entire video, my download failed about 60% in, but from what I did see, I would certainly agree that 'back to the target' is nearly always a good concept, and has been a swing key for many of the great players, past and present.

As far as the toss - given the 'feel vs real', I understand where you are coming from.

If the result of that feel is radial acceleration (force in the direction the shaft is pointing), can you differentiate for me the move you are talking about, and the endless belt concept?

Is it fair to say you are talking about 'where the belt' is pointing, and that the hands have gone 'around the circle' before impact?

PM me if you don't want certain 'lingo' to get in the way, just trying to 'get it'

got it? :)

edit - I've got a new variation on your sayings....


"throw the fiddle away from the target"
 
Last edited:

ZAP

New
The idea using the alignment rod drove it home for me. I played nine holes today and I bet I mishit one shot. Not saying they were all great shots but all of them came out of the center of the club. Actually flew a couple of greens. Good stuff.
 
KGlennCole,

I had a number of issues I had to deal with related to being able to perform this when I initially met with Brian. We worked a few of them out in the lesson and I've continued to work it. The video has helped to distill some of my thoughts on this approach, among them being:

1) if you're not making a full turn you better pay lots of attention to not tugging. Even if I do make a full turn, as the club gets longer I need to really feel like my chest is still facing a bit to the right as I enter impact or it's going to be a bit of a wipe.

2) the toss has been mentioned in some other comments here and I'm getting a better feel for just how important it is. I don't feel like I can get normal at impact if the clubhead isn't really free-wheeling and I'm finding that making a more "aggressive" toss really helps with that. A less agressive toss and I feel like I HAVE to drag it at the bottom with no chance of pulling in toward me at that point.

Can't tell you how quick yet effortless the swing feels from the top when I hit it the best. Like a continuous throw from the top that I can pull against at the bottom.

Thanks. Even though it appears as though the toss is important, just wondering "how important"? Can the release be effective without a full toss, for example? Are there 'degrees' of the toss? I'll be working on it this week plus several days in FL (9 days total, must play at least 4 or 5 of those days!). I'd hate to be working on something the wrong way.

For all, especially Brian, what could I do *wrong* in working on the toss?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top