drewyallop
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Remember, you used to BE the Browns. Can't think of anything worse. The post season flops came with them from the lake
Don Cockroft. I still haven't got over it.
"I'll tumble for ya"
- Thread starter Lindsey Newman
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Don Cockroft. I still haven't got over it.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
The across the liners just need to lay it off in time to get back on top of it thru impact. Gotta watch using too much rotation to flatten it out as well.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Not quite.
"A judge Monday approved a deal allowing Baltimore Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis to avoid murder charges and jail time by pleading guilty to a misdemeanor and testifying against two co-defendants."
Is that where the "Ratbird" moniker came from?
Beat me to it.
You shouldn't be across the line in the first place.It takes tremendous ability to play consistent golf doing it.Even tour players consider it undesirable.Jack Nicklaus had a tendency to get across the line and it's something he tries not to do.
For every pro that is across the line,there are 50 that are not.
Ryo Ishikawa is one that is and he is having a terrible time ballstriking wise this year.He never seems to get the club flat enough anywhere during his downswing and appears to back up the shaft all the way through impact.I think it takes tremendous talent doing this.If he wants to have any success on the PGA tour,it is something he will have to address.
For every pro that is across the line,there are 50 that are not.
Ryo Ishikawa is one that is and he is having a terrible time ballstriking wise this year.He never seems to get the club flat enough anywhere during his downswing and appears to back up the shaft all the way through impact.I think it takes tremendous talent doing this.If he wants to have any success on the PGA tour,it is something he will have to address.
Without the reverse tumble/tumble downswing it feels soooo powerful. Though I'm usually 30 yards left with it.
Bobby Jones is one of the very few great players who are ascross the line but he has the ability to make a massive re-route in the transition.Notice how much he is across the line but then he spins his club like a helicopter blade so much so that he is flat by the time his hands reach shoulder height in the downswing.Most across the liners will still be steep at that point.
Like I just said in the case of Jones,if you can make the necessary re-route in the transition then you can be across the line as much as you like.It's not in itself a fault in my opinion.Most however cannot do the transition required to match this position at the top.
I think its interesting that, according to Frank Nobilo, Ian Poulter spent part of the year trying to get his club "less laid off" and more "down the line" because it would be "more correct." The result? He hit it much worse when the club looked more correct. He finally went back to laying it off.
We've discussed the benefits of laying the shaft down in transition so the club head can go out toward the ball. He clearly does that beautifully from a laid off position. Not sure why he tried for a more traditionally orthodox looking backswing, other than he clearly cares, a lot, about how he looks.
Is there any science behind a club that is "perfectly" down the line at the top of the swing?
We've discussed the benefits of laying the shaft down in transition so the club head can go out toward the ball. He clearly does that beautifully from a laid off position. Not sure why he tried for a more traditionally orthodox looking backswing, other than he clearly cares, a lot, about how he looks.
Is there any science behind a club that is "perfectly" down the line at the top of the swing?
Lindsey Newman
New
Across the line
One must remember that there are multiple way to cross the line. Just 2 examples will suffice for my point.
1. Across due to massive full body turn where shoulder turn 110 degrees or more whilst the arms, hands and clubs are making the proper rotational movements. This would be "Jones" like.
2. Across due to under rotation of the arms or allowing the the club and arms swing past the rear elbow in the backswing (flying rt elbow for righties). This would "choppers delight".
One must remember that there are multiple way to cross the line. Just 2 examples will suffice for my point.
1. Across due to massive full body turn where shoulder turn 110 degrees or more whilst the arms, hands and clubs are making the proper rotational movements. This would be "Jones" like.
2. Across due to under rotation of the arms or allowing the the club and arms swing past the rear elbow in the backswing (flying rt elbow for righties). This would "choppers delight".
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Ernie Els was never the same after the change
Lindsey Newman
New
For me, it's a matter of how the club reaches any position. If you're under turned (pivot) and simply lifted your arms and cupped your lead wrist to get it laid off then that doesn't work (usually) either. Anyone can lay it off, but doing properly is the gig.
faux_maestro
New
I resemble this remark!
One thing that I have found is that before finding this site I had always heard that laid-off was a "death move" to be avoided at all costs, across the line was a little less bad. To me it sounds like (depending on how/why you get there) the opposite is true.
I you really think about it,online at the top is already across the line.Across the line is massively across the line.A little bit laid off is actually closer to onplane.Truly laid off is where the club points way outside the plane line.I doubt many players can play with being very laid off either although some of us have wet dreams over Sergio....over his swing I mean.
worst thing a good player can get into is trying to look better...
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