"I'll tumble for ya"

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Being an across the liner from the time I started golf, I have found that it is very difficult to lay it off and not have to change the transition.

I can change the transition and still be across the line, though. Watching Freddy too much, I guess.

I'm still working on which one I can be more consistent with.
 
Can someone relate this thread to the "Soft Draw" pattern, where one is supposed to be across the line at the top? Does that make it a lot harder to tumble?
 

lia41985

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Makes you wonder how with that over rotated left arm flying wedge him and old Tiger won so much.

Laid off.

Lol.

Just win, baby.
 
Do you fix their backswing or do you work on their transition first?

If you were to drop your right elbow to your right hip in transition (without consciously trying to manipulate any other body part or applying any other force) wouldn't the shaft "have-to" lay down a bit due to the weight of the clubhead?

I worked on this feeling from my across the line top of the backswing position and had a much different feeling in the 2nd part of the downswing than I normally experience.
 
If you were to drop your right elbow to your right hip in transition (without consciously trying to manipulate any other body part or applying any other force) wouldn't the shaft "have-to" lay down a bit due to the weight of the clubhead?

I worked on this feeling from my across the line top of the backswing position and had a much different feeling in the 2nd part of the downswing than I normally experience.

YES! I am convinced that if a player aggressively digs the right elbow down, that will help shallow the shaft early during transition. And if you watch slow-motion video of players who fail to shallow the shaft during transition, their right elbows fail to dig down aggressively. Very useful to compare face-on view to down-the-line view here.
 
If you were to drop your right elbow to your right hip in transition (without consciously trying to manipulate any other body part or applying any other force) wouldn't the shaft "have-to" lay down a bit due to the weight of the clubhead?

Maybe for some, but I'm sure others will have to intentionally lay it off with hand/forearm rotation; the elbow drop alone wouldn't be enough.
 

dbl

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If the elbow is 'flying' then tucking/jamming elbow to one's side would IMO flatten shaft. Good call!
 
YES! I am convinced that if a player aggressively digs the right elbow down, that will help shallow the shaft early during transition. And if you watch slow-motion video of players who fail to shallow the shaft during transition, their right elbows fail to dig down aggressively. Very useful to compare face-on view to down-the-line view here.

To be more specific, take a look at swings in slow-motion from a face-on view. Better players typically succeed at digging the right elbow down where it is visibly significantly below the left arm. For weaker players, the right elbow barely gets beneath the left arm, if at all.
 
I think the hands should go away from the target before the right elbow going down. Or at least at nearly the same time, if possible.
 

ej20

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It's not just a right elbow drop and tuck.It is a drop of the right shoulder as well.This forces you to maintain waist bend and clear your hips otherwise your right elbow will jam into your right hip if you stand up and early extend.The right shoulder and elbow will have nowhere to go after transition and they need to fire through impact with plenty of room.

Having said this,it still doesn't guarantee a flat shaft in transition.You might be in the PROCESS of flattening it but you still need to pronate the left forearm to truly lay it off and by this I mean for real not feel.This pronation of the left forearm is the difficult move because it's counter-intuitive.
 

lia41985

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The pronation of the left forearm is the difficult move because it's counter-intuitive.
Why it's better for some to over rotate the lead arm flying wedge early and a lot in the backswing. It gives you something you can tumble. Much easier for some to manage than getting over and across, back it up just enough, then hit the gas again but not too hard.

It's why Dustin Johnson's takeaway pairs well with his very "turned down" down and through swing. You would ruin him by making his takeaway look like Rickie Fowler's or Bubba Watson's.
 
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Careful with dropping the right shoulder causing too much right side bend (axis tilt) too early. Realize you can get too "under plane"(for lack of a better term) and come from too inside with too much early axis tilt. The more I learn how to do it, the more it's a wonderful balancing act.
 
Careful with dropping the right shoulder causing too much right side bend (axis tilt) too early. Realize you can get too "under plane"(for lack of a better term) and come from too inside with too much early axis tilt. The more I learn how to do it, the more it's a wonderful balancing act.

I agree that dropping the right shoulder a ton can result in getting underplane. To guard against that, I try to hit a pull into the left foul bleachers. It's working quite nicely for me right now. If the ball starts right, that means I got underplane and I needed to pull it more. If the ball starts left, that means I failed to drop the right shoulder sufficiently.
 
Careful with dropping the right shoulder causing too much right side bend (axis tilt) too early. Realize you can get too "under plane"(for lack of a better term) and come from too inside with too much early axis tilt. The more I learn how to do it, the more it's a wonderful balancing act.

BManz's analysis of Sergio in Golf Magazine on-line discusses how dropping his right shoulder too much would be extremely detrimental to his swing.
 
For Sergio it's a death move for Tom Watson it's his bread and butter. All depends on how far behind you the arms swung in the backswing.
 
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