Internal rotation (lagging club head takeaway)

[willimatic]

Does anyone feel a lot more dynamic when they use internal rotation to start the backswing? When I use lagging club head takeaway I have more dynamics and consistency in my swing!! It's almost as I determine how long my backswing is going to be by how hard the initial start of the backswing is (using my core to start it). Hope that makes sense?

But it seems with all these modern swings and the swings of the tour don't have that look. Maybe it is from all the down the line views and not enough face on. Why is it that it seems more of a thing of the past?

I know I feel more consistent with it and gives me the feeling of more "flow" in my swing. What about you? Love to hear what you all think?

Will

 

[spktho]

Does a lot to prevent a flip also.

Just out of curiosity what are you determining to be "internally rotating"?

 

[willimatic]

I only used the term to describe "internal" meaning the body rotating as the feel to start the swing. I really just mean lagging club head takeaway, sorry! I don't have a flip or struggle with that. Just feels a lot more dynamic and repeatable to me rather than feeling the arms start the swing.

 

[Kevin Shields]

If you start the swing with your hands or arms it is just about the LEAST athletic thing you could do. Doesnt mean it cant work for some, but hands controlled pivot is just plain old unathletic. Show me another sport that does something like this.

 

[cmartingolf]

Will, I sure do and try. While it looks pretty nominal on video, it is certainly present in my feel. I start my lawnmower with my core

 

[WoodbridgeGolf37]

I like to think of generating some "stored up" power from the ground up and then "feel" like I'm initiating the backswing with the right/hip or butt cheek moving towards an imaginary wall behind me - the club gets in a better position and I'm much more dynamic.

 

[willimatic]

Kevin,

I don't think I have ever used just an arm and club takeaway. YES it feels sooo unathletic! I should have said I have experimented a bit with limiting the amount of movement to start the backswing as I have been told I need to have a quieter body to start the backswing (the old "let the upper body turn the lower body" idea). While I agree there is "some" truth to that because you dont want excessive amounts of hip turn, I think that feeling the body start to pull the arms is the most natural and athletic.

Woodbridgegolf37

I like that explanation of the "stored up" power from the gorund up! That is a very fitting description I think.

Thanks guys!

 

[WoodbridgeGolf37]

I think I'm just paraphrasing language from some of Brian's descriptions about ground forces. Also - the vid of Greg McHatton that has previously been posted is a very nice (and hypnotic) demonstration of "ground up"/LCT type of swing....

 

[teeithigh]

yes i saw greg give a demonstration of holding a thick rope the size of his left arm against his left upper chest and using his pivot to swing his muscleless arm (the rope) and if you pivot well enough the rope just swings on its natural arc....awesome drill ..can be used for the right arm too! teaches walloping the ball with your pivot to use BMANZ words....

 

[drewyallop]

My arms can't relax if they are taking the clubhead away. Much better to pull those two lengths of spaghettini back with the body - let the body fling the arms back. This way they stay relaxed at the top and drop down easily without having to force the pivot.

 

[AndyC]

If you start the swing with your hands or arms it is just about the LEAST athletic thing you could do. Doesnt mean it cant work for some, but hands controlled pivot is just plain old unathletic. Show me another sport that does something like this.

When you throw a ball do you start with your shoulder or legs? I really can't think of one athletic movement that uses hands and arms that doesn't start with a move of the hands. It doesn't mean that the hands have to dominate the movement but they are the first to move.

Ben Hogan page 69 in Five lessons says the following: "ON THE BACKSWING, THE ORDER OF MOVEMENT GOES LIKE THIS: HANDS, ARMS, SHOULDERS, HIPS." Written in caps just like the book.

 

[Matt Bryda]

But it seems with all these modern swings and the swings of the tour don't have that look. Maybe it is from all the down the line views and not enough face on. Why is it that it seems more of a thing of the past?

Like beginning from the ground up and stepping off your left foot to begin your swing

I think that eventually enough of the information on this site will get out into the mainstream world of instruction and...

Like the saying goes, Sometimes history repeats itself

Matt

 

[Kevin Shields]

When you throw a ball do you start with your shoulder or legs? I really can't think of one athletic movement that uses hands and arms that doesn't start with a move of the hands. It doesn't mean that the hands have to dominate the movement but they are the first to move.

Ben Hogan page 69 in Five lessons says the following: "ON THE BACKSWING, THE ORDER OF MOVEMENT GOES LIKE THIS: HANDS, ARMS, SHOULDERS, HIPS." Written in caps just like the book.

With all due respect, you must not throw a ball very hard. Everybody who throws a ball steps on his rear foot to get the movement started. The hands are never the first to move, ever. Totally unathletic.

Hogan also said to start the downswing with a clearing of the left hip. He probably put that in capital letters too.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Forward press, step on right foot.....

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIBHnO6nSq4&feature=related[/media]

 

[AndyC]

With all due respect, you must not throw a ball very hard. Everybody who throws a ball steps on his rear foot to get the movement started. The hands are never the first to move, ever. Totally unathletic.

Hogan also said to start the downswing with a clearing of the left hip. He probably put that in capital letters too.

I throw a ball quite well thank you and I start with my hand. It doesn't mean my rear foot doesn't get involved in the throw but it is not the leader. It acts as a brace for my pivot and I would only use the leg if I needed power. If I were throwing a dart from 6 feet I wouldn't need the power and my rear foot wouldn't ever be involved.

If we were talking about the downswing or the or the forward motion of the throw I would agree that the hands follow and not lead.

 

[birdie_man]

LCT...a vital key to what speed I have!! When I start slacking on LCT I lose a bunch of the swing (like a swingset) part of my swing.

Do it right and you know you are loose enough...and you'll load it better at the top.

The big 4 for me so far: loose shoulders, LCT, left shoulder up.

Will let you know if I find a better way...

 

[spktho]

The big 4 for me so far: loose shoulders, LCT, left shoulder up.

4? What's the 4th?

 

[dannyc]

I throw a ball quite well thank you and I start with my hand. It doesn't mean my rear foot doesn't get involved in the throw but it is not the leader. It acts as a brace for my pivot and I would only use the leg if I needed power. If I were throwing a dart from 6 feet I wouldn't need the power and my rear foot wouldn't ever be involved.

If we were talking about the downswing or the or the forward motion of the throw I would agree that the hands follow and not lead.

umm...no.
the part in bold is especially funny!
comparing this to a dart throw is essentially comparing a full swing to a 2 foot putt.
imagine yourself taking a 3 step drop...when you find your receiver, what happens next?

 

[Kevin Shields]

I throw a ball quite well thank you and I start with my hand. It doesn't mean my rear foot doesn't get involved in the throw but it is not the leader. It acts as a brace for my pivot and I would only use the leg if I needed power. If I were throwing a dart from 6 feet I wouldn't need the power and my rear foot wouldn't ever be involved.

If we were talking about the downswing or the or the forward motion of the throw I would agree that the hands follow and not lead.

Throwing a dart from six feet? Thats comparable to what in this discussion? I guarantee something other than your hand is moving first when you throw something with any power at all. Unless you're throwing darts, of course.

 

[Shot Limit]

When I throw a dart, I start my stroke with my right ear. That's why I'm so good. 25% of the time I almost always come within 10 inches of the bullseye with this technique.