Intersesting News and Rumor.

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Brian Manzella

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Folks, here are the COLD HARD FACTS:

These MEDIA GLORIFIED "troubleshooter" types—Leadbetter, Harmon, Smith, Haney, McLean, and Flick—think they are as good as they are TOLD they are.

I have been critized forever for being truthful about what they teach, and how they treated me. They do it way worse that I ever had. It is just starting to get out in the open. A couple of years ago, haney called McLean a "a--hole." Or was it the other way around?

Steve Jobs and Bill Gates have gone at it for years, and they could sell the "trouble-shooters" into slavery.

I think this is actually GOOD for golf. Let's all have a big debate and teach-off! :D

Anyhoo, Harmon will DE-LAG Mickelson, and it will help for maybe 5 minutes. The placebo effect is big on Tour.

As far as Haney, who knows? The rumor was that Tiger was leaving. If anyone will do it "on the sly" it is Tiger.
 
StewartBannatyne

StewartBannatyne

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Brian Manzella said:
As far as Haney, who knows? The rumor was that Tiger was leaving. If anyone will do it "on the sly" it is Tiger.
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It's funny how you mention that...When I spent some time in San Antonio in 2002/2003, there was always one guy who claimed Tiger was working with Hank, and that Butch was really just around "to be seen", more or less.

We always thought he was nuts. :)

Stew
 
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dcg1952

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Tiger played 36 holes at Oakmont yesterday----and Hank Haney was with him. Tiger played with Bob Ford, the Head Pro at Oakmont who said Tiger's ball-striking was sensational.
 
bcoak

bcoak

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Glad DL chiomed in:
The problem, as Smith explained after Doral, is that Mickelson gets steep and narrow on his downswing. They had a heated session on the range Saturday at Augusta, but Smith couldn't fix him. "It's not a problem with his short, compact swing [with his irons]," Leadbetter pointed out. "When he's moving, the club is moving. But with his longer swing, when he's moving, the club is lagging and he never catches up. You can see when he hits three-quarter irons, he has a lot more width in his swing and more consistency."

SO, how does he get him this width? Less lag?
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Width.

Basically, they are talking about a more circular delivery path.

Funny, Sergio hits it straight, and Hogan hit it straight, and Jose Maria STILL doesn't.

I would probably "fix" him a dozen different ways before I "de-lagged" him.
 
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mb6606

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They showed a DL instructional clip on TGC last night. DL was teaching the cupped wrist at the top and the speed flip at the bottom. He took a full swing 7 iron and picked it cleanly off the tuff without distrubing a blade of grass. Nice and dainty.
 
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David Alford

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Assuming a ton of talent, I think the only person who can beat TW (regularly) is a guy with as good a short game and as good a full swing or better. And I think that will take a bona fide Hogan swing.

How else are you going to be better than TW?

PM should be taking a close look at respective mano-a-mano short game stats to see what can be improved. I'm talking about the whole gamut including film analysis of ball roll, etc.

Then, of course, would be the hard decision to try to Hoganize his swing. Yes, that would include shortening the backswing and developing a better lower body action (I'll spare the details).

But, if Phil doesn't like that feeling & prefers a loose swing...same-0...

Tough logic...sorry.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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David Alford said:
Assuming a ton of talent, I think the only person who can beat TW (regularly) is a guy with as good a short game and as good a full swing or better. And I think that will take a bona fide Hogan swing.

How else are you going to be better than TW?
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Better ballstriking....better short game. Well no doubt......better toss in better "mental game" too.

Tiger thinks he can improve.....and he can......so there's room for someone to get in there.....and why wouldn't there be? They just have to be really good....obviously....

...

I'm as big of a Hogan fan as anyone.....but you really think a "Hogan swing" is the only way?
 
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kshoren05

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So what is really the deal with Phil going to Harmon? I have read Harmon's books and watched some of his lessons on the golf channel and to be honest he doesn't impress me that much. When Greg Norman was working with him in the 90's did Butch really help Greg that much? I would wager to say 'No'. If you look at video of both Norman and Tiger from that period they were both had 3/4 backswing with shut clubfaces. There is no question that both players were still studs but they would be studs no matter how they swing.

So I guess what this rant is about is I can understand Phil needing a change of pace but I don't think Harmon is the answer. Basically from what I read is that Phil doesn't want to implement the changes Rick has suggested and that Butch is telling him what he wants to hear so that is the basic premise for the switch. I think this whole situation speaks more to Phil's psychology than it does to improving his technique which is a completely different topic that Brian has addressed really well in other threads. Anyhow, I am still a big Phil fan and I am skeptical that this is the answer to fixing his game...how about just practicing as much as Tiger does? or play more golf during football season and stay out of the casinos?
 
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eric54

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This is from latest Tiger newsletter. I dont know if I am perhaps reading something into this that is not there but i thought interesting he said friend and not coach

'I played 36 holes at Oakmont Country Club on Sunday with my good friend Hank Haney. It's a great test, but has a lot of blind tee and second shots. Overall, I'd say it's a lot harder than Augusta National. It's an old-style course. I kept trying to figure out where the USGA was going to put the pin placements for the U.S. Open in June and I'm still not sure.'
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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kshoren05 said:
I think this whole situation speaks more to Phil's psychology than it does to improving his technique which is a completely different topic that Brian has addressed really well in other threads. Anyhow, I am still a big Phil fan and I am skeptical that this is the answer to fixing his game...how about just practicing as much as Tiger does? or play more golf during football season and stay out of the casinos?
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He prolly IS getting some sketchy info tho kshoren...

And........I just dunno if the guy is cut out to be a ball-beater. I dunno how much he practices already.....and I'm no expert on what's right for Phil.......but something is telling me Phil may not be cut out for that "style" of approach.

The first thing that comes to my mind is that 59 that he shot. (with a putt for 58) If I remember right it was his first round after a 3 month layoff.

I could be wrong about all this....it just came to my mind.
 
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kshoren05

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I remember that 59, that was really sweet. Some how I don't see him taking 3 months off and shooting 59 in a major. In the April issue of golf digest Rick Smith does an analysis of Phil's swing and mentions changes he'd like to see Phil make but Phil hasn't because it feels too 'mechanical'.

Oh well, he is a much better golfer than I am but I still think the issue is his work ethic. If he put half the effort Tiger does into his game I have no doubt he'd be better which would be scary and a fantastic thing for golf.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Aside from whether it's the right stuff (for Phil) or not- maybe it's not being presented to him in the right way??

I want to make clear that I don't think the guy shouldn't try to improve things and work at it......I just don't see Phil being a ball-beater. A Ben Hogan....a Tiger Woods....a Vijay Singh.

Is that a fault? Or is that a trait of his?

Would he be better off to try more? Or would "forcing it" be counter-productive?

I dunno.
 
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kshoren05

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Well I disagree. I found this to be an interesting article that Phil wrote for espn.com and it gave me insight into what he thinks he needs to do in order to get better. Basically, he says he needs to work harder, lose weight, and improve his driving accuracy.

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2797259

I grew up playing golf in Southern California and I have played with Phil several times. He is the greatest guy ever and is so talented that I don't think there is anything he can't do with a golf ball. Further, I played several times with Tiger in college and he is equally phonomenal. They both want to beat you as bad as they possibly can but I think Tiger is more determined and focused. That may change slightly when he has his child but I still think if Phil wants to get to the point where he is challenging Tiger for majors he has to put in the work no matter how well he plays after taking a 3 month break. There are just too many guys out there working their a**es off and the level of competition is so high Phil doesn't really have a choice. He has to put in the work just like all the greats one did.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Well fair enough- sir.

Maybe you're right. Maybe Phil, plain and simple, needs to suck it up....get out there......stop being so gun-shy about "mechanics".....etc.

All I'm saying tho is that I, myself, don't see him as a HARDCORE, super-dedicated, golf-obsessed, ball-beater.

I just don't see him naturally going out there and doing that out of passion.

Yes- it is how you work a lot of things out- "Dig it out of the dirt." And no doubt Moe Norman and Hogan and Vijay and Tiger do it out of passion and experiment all the time. But I don't think it can be forced.....at least not to the level of those guys anyway.

I just don't see that with Phil.....I don't know why. It is just what I perceive.

Maybe I don't know enough about Phil....maybe my theory is plain bunk. I don't really care.

Again- all I'm saying is, for some reason, I don't see it.

I can't explain....you don't have to agree or even think it makes sense.....and I don't really care if you do.
 
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FloydPT38

FloydPT38

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I have to agree with birdieman-
I would like to see Phil work really hard -all the time and then Tiger and Phil have some super matches but I don't think his personality is that way. And never will be- this was also from that article.

"if I'm not excited to play golf, I'm not going to play well. I want it to be as close as possible to the same game I played as a kid. When I was in my backyard, where my dad built me a green and a sand trap, if I just chipped and putted, it'd get monotonous." Phil
 
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