John Rohan-Weaver vs. Bronco Billy....

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vjsinger said:
Just wondering how many of the Instructors here use this type of technology(k-vest,I-club) on a day to day basis. Furthermore, can you discuss results with students if possible. If this has been discussed at length before I apologize, and request direction to information.
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# 1 Positive Transfer Dynamic Motor Skill Training vs. # 2 Visionary vs. # 3 Feel vs. # 4 Bio Feedback

I have listed the training in order of lasting results which I have taught the golf swing for the last 20 years with over 10,000 lessons and counting. Bio-Feedback is #4 on the list. I have used this form of training with all levels of golfers from beginners to tour pros. I also have tried these training methods with all of the devices available and the devices I design.

I only use #1 Positive Transfer Dynamic Motor Skill Training during private lessons. My swing trainers I have designed provide # 1 Positive Transfer Dynamic Motor Skill Training as well as Visionary, 3 Feel and one swing trainer uses Bio Feedback.

I now use TrackMan and an About Golf Simulator to provide results for the golfer with positive transfer dynamic motor skill training. I get positive results with every lesson using positive transfer dynamic motor skill training. There are no failures.

I have talked about the LUCK FACTOR (Golf Tips) and how many golfers learn golf with just that. This is the reason golf scores do not come down. I hear many stories of the Long Drive a golfer hits with the LUCK FACTOR (golf tip).

I do not teach the LUCK FACTOR (Golf Tips) and if the golfer is willing to put in the practice time needed, I can help them with lasting results with positive transfer dynamic motor skill training .

The bottom line is the golfer needs to see improvement in every lesson. I don’t give as many lessons as I once did due to back problems but I do provide positive transfer dynamic motor skill training with swing trainers and DVDs I design that teach the golf swing with lasting results.

Some might view this post as an ad but the real truth is if the golfer is committed I will do whatever I can to help them reach their goals in golf. This includes products I endorse. One of the best devices I use to teach # 1 Positive Transfer Dynamic Motor Skill Training and did not design but endorse is the Dual Track. It is fantastic and every golfer and instructor should own one...

To Better Golf,
John W Rohan-Weaver CMAI, GSEM
 
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vjsinger

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Better Yet...

Matt F. said:
How about a definiton what this is, I checked wikipedia and nothing came up and google only gives a link to your website.
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How about an outside source link/study done on the effects it has in developing skills for such a difficult skill as executing the proper golf swing??

Thanks for your input John
 
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vjsinger said:
How about an outside source link/study done on the effects it has in developing skills for such a difficult skill as executing the proper golf swing??

Thanks for your input John
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I know many are using this type of training. They might just call it motor skill training. I know it is used allot in other sports like baseball batting and foot ball skills.

There is a book out of print on it. I will get the name and author and let you know and you start searching for it..
 
vjsinger

vjsinger

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Guitar Hero said:
I know many are using this type of training. They might just call it motor skill training. I know it is used allot in other sports like baseball batting and foot ball skills.

There is a book out of print on it. I will get the name and author and let you know and you start searching for it..
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John,

Just wondering if many people you come across in the golf world feel this strongly on the subject as yourself...It seems that some on this site are giving you a little bit of grief. I understand it has been sucessful for you..I guess what Im asking is... in your opinion, Are there this many golf instructors left in the dark?? Is this the future?? Understand I ask these questions as a student/consumer trying to figure out the best way to spend my buck and I am not trying to stir up controversy. I believe it is important to discuss this subject further...thoughts?
 
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vjsinger said:
John,

Just wondering if many people you come across in the golf world feel this strongly on the subject as yourself...It seems that some on this site are giving you a little bit of grief. I understand it has been sucessful for you..I guess what Im asking is... in your opinion, Are there this many golf instructors left in the dark?? Is this the future?? Understand I ask these questions as a student/consumer trying to figure out the best way to spend my buck and I am not trying to stir up controversy. I believe it is important to discuss this subject further...thoughts?
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Positive Transfer Motor Skill Training is used by many golf instructors. I know many might not know what it is called but teach it. I can think of 16 instructors off the top of my head that know about it and use it to teach the golf swing.
 
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Robbohank

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Guitar Hero said:
# 1 Positive Transfer Dynamic Motor Skill Training vs. # 2 Visionary vs. # 3 Feel vs. # 4 Bio Feedback

Some might view this post as an ad but the real truth is if the golfer is committed I will do whatever I can to help them reach their goals in golf. This includes products I do not design but endorse. One of the best devices I use to teach # 1 Positive Transfer Dynamic Motor Skill Training and did not design but endorse is the Dual Track. It is fantastic and every golfer and instructor should own one...

To Better Golf,
John W Rohan-Weaver CMAI, GSEM
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You can't be serious that a device that takes you to waist-high on the backswing and then collapses is the ultimate training aid. What is your student "demographic"? I quit believing the guys that say a good backswing guarantees a good downswing a long time ago.

Maybe there's a lot less to the golf swing than I imagined.
 
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Robbohank said:
You can't be serious that a device that takes you to waist-high on the backswing and then collapses is the ultimate training aid. What is your student "demographic"? I quit believing the guys that say a good backswing guarantees a good downswing a long time ago.

Maybe there's a lot less to the golf swing than I imagined.
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Robbohank,

I do not teach with it that way at all. There are many devices that are great but you have to know how to teach with them.
 
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vjsinger said:
By the way, any news on the books/links yet???
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“Super Slow” by Ken Hutchins Ken talks about positive transfer training in his book. This was the book I first heard about it in 1989 working for Atlantic Nautilus.

Since 1989 I have been researching and learning more about how to train with it for 20 years. I knew way back then this would be the key for motor skill training.

Ken now has his center within walking distance from my office. If you do searches on positive transfer training you will find plenty to read about it.
 
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Matt F. said:
Ok, I skimmed the link and have no interest trying to learn about this, I have lots of other things I would rather do then delve into a scientific paper with lots of jargon. How about an explanation from you what this is in layman’s terms and why this is so great?
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There is some good information in the link and it is easy to understand what is going on. I am sorry you have no interest in trying to learn. I have no interest in explaining it to you..
 
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ZZTOP

The Great Billy Gibbons once told me it is all in the hands. I think he and Homer were on to something? "Jesus just left Chicago and was bound for New Orleans"
 
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Positive transfer takes place when the activities of practice and performance are identical. For the most positive transfer between the practice session and the performance, what is done in practice must be exactly, precisely, accurately and specifically the same as the performance. The more skilled the golfer becomes the more important it is that their activities in practice are the same as the performance. The golfer should always use the same equipment in the practice sessions and performance for the greatest success.
 
Matt 4-L

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Thank you...I'm not the brightest guy in the world I am still trying to understand what you’re talking about. Are you saying when practicing hitting balls you should be using the exact same motion you would in your golf swing when playing, so using guides and things is beneficial? Like plane boards and such? Would doing the golf swing in slow motion be beneficial since you can control exactly how you want your body to move? Or are you saying break the golf swing down into individual motions and practice each one precisely? Kind of like Tiger practices his motion of his swing before he addresses the ball or like Weir when he makes his practice takeaways?
 
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Kevin Shields

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poweranglepro said:
Positive transfer takes place when the activities of practice and performance are identical. For the most positive transfer between the practice session and the performance, what is done in practice must be exactly, precisely, accurately and specifically the same as the performance. The more skilled the golfer becomes the more important it is that their activities in practice are the same as the performance. The golfer should always use the same equipment in the practice sessions and performance for the greatest success.
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If I'm reading this correctly, how does it help sell training aids?
 
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Kevin Shields

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I know what training aids are for. His thesis seems to say that golfers shouls use the same equipment in practice as play. Just seems contrary to his business.
 
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Kevin Shields said:
I know what training aids are for. His thesis seems to say that golfers shouls use the same equipment in practice as play. Just seems contrary to his business.
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Here is an example of how I use positive transfer training. Back in the day when I was a studio guitarist I would find out exactly what need to be played including the sound (Tone) and practice it exactly how I would perform it in the studio. I use my own chair, guitar, Amp, speaker cabs and everything I used to learn that part including the same pick. I remember in one session the bass player did not show and they ask if I would lay down the bass track. I knew I could do right them as it was an easy part but without a few hours of positive transfer training with different equipment it would not have the same dynamics on tape. So I told them if I can work on it for an hour I would do it. I practiced it until I felt it was the best effort I could provide and recoded the track in one take. It took me a little of an hour to get at a pro sound, it only took less than 5 minutes to record it and it was perfect. I use positive transfer training all the time learning different motor skills.

Here is a way you can use it for the take away. Get a driver shaft with a grip on it but no club head. Stick the shaft in the ground about 2 ½ to 3 feet to the right and in line with the toe line of the right foot. (Right handed golfer) Now when you make a take away and bring the club head up to the top of the back swing do not hit the shaft. If you hit the shaft you are taking the sweet spot off path (plane) and most of the time it will get out of balance (open club face) You can adjust the position of the shaft to act as a guide for your perfect back swing path.

As for my swing trainers they train different kinds of feedback for learning motor skills. Some work better than others for golfers. When I give a lesson I will always provide the correct trainer for that student to practice with. Sometimes I make a custom one for them. I make custom swing trainers for the tour pros all the time. What I don’t sell is training aids. Most training aids don’t aid anything. I just list a few of the best on my site that will help most golfers if they train the instruction on the video. I do not teach one swing for all and never have. All the patterns including the Hammer Swing have many options to fit the golfer. But to have a custom pattern you have will have to take a private lesson so I can see what you are doing.

This is why Brian is successful. He understands the golf swing and the need for custom patterns and his videos are great for showing different patterns. I am sure in a few years Brian will have many custom patterns on DVD for you to learn. This is the way golf instruction needs to be but most instructors do not put in the time and research and you have the one pattern fits all B.S. Well everyone on this forum knows the value of a custom pattern and will find the one that works for them here and play good golf.

I learn just like everybody here. I have been on other forums and most of it is one pattern golf swings.

I have bought all of Brian’s videos and will buy every one he puts out. I suggest you do the same. The price for the videos is a steal so there is no excuse for not owning all of them. If you can’t take a lesson from Brian then support all his efforts and buy his products. When Brian puts up a graft of swing sequence it takes time so like I said support him by taking lessons or buying his videos. You will also get better. Brian has given you thousands of dollars of research he has had to pay for free on this forum. It is time to give back.

I have said this in other threads. "If I was to have someone look at my swing for help Brian is the only one I would trust to do this period".
 
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I just wanted to mention that my instruction on the golf swing is to teach sweet spot balance (club face movement) and sweet spot path (club head path) with positive transfer dynamic motor skill learning.

I teach this due to the reality of the golf swing in 3-D. I do not teach shaft planes at all. I reference the shaft sometimes but not the way most instruction uses shaft planes. So if you are referring to 2-D lines drawn for shaft planes or the relation of the club face to these shaft planes then the information I talk about will not jive with it.

I believe 2-D and shaft planes are a big time problem with golf instruction and it doesn’t stop there. Lines are use all over the 2-D screen and it creates more confusion than actual motor skill learning.

If lines are use to show movement where the dimension of depth is not needed than they can help. But this is rare in the golf swing. I do show video of the students swing sometimes but it is just super slow motion of the club face motion through impact most of the time.

I am happy to help you but I just wanted to post this so you would understand if the post seems to be a little out in right field, my instruction is based on 3-D motion vs. 2-D motion. That’s all.

John W Rohan-Weaver CMAI, GSEM
 
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