Lag Pressure Talk

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puttmad

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....

daniell said:
I don't want to take sides but 'change in direction of the clubhead through impact" does not make any sense to me at all.
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Me neither....

Which direction are we supposed to be referring to?
Is it a change in the circular direction of the club path (i.e circle to ellipse (or vice-versa)) from a face-on view, or is it a change in the circle direction from a behind-the-line view?....
 
R

Ringer

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puttmad said:
Me neither....

Which direction are we supposed to be referring to?
Is it a change in the circular direction of the club path (i.e circle to ellipse (or vice-versa)) from a face-on view, or is it a change in the circle direction from a behind-the-line view?....
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By definition an arc is constantly changing direction. It's non-linear.
 
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Biffer

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Ringer said:
By definition an arc is constantly changing direction. It's non-linear.
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So, a club that is moving on an arc is continually changing direction, but during the amount of time that it is in contact with the ball, that change is extremely small, which would seem to have very little effect on the magnitude of acceleration and velocity. True? Still :confused:
 
mandrin

mandrin

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Ringer said:
No mandrin, I'm not a physicist so your "thought experiment" is Chinese to me. I guess that's just another something for you to put me down with huh. Good for you.. Found another reason to be a jack ass. Glad you're the belittling and jackoff sort instead of the informative and helpful. Lord help us if you actually were nice to someone who is trying to learn.
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Ringer,

You have a ‘pretty thick skull’, as you mention in another post, and admit thinking is all ‘Chinese’ to you but you are very familiar with words such as jack ass. All in all, an interesting type of personality emerges from all this. :D

I will be away for a few days but am quite willing to continue our friendly discussion afterwards. ;)
 
mandrin

mandrin

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Birds of a feather flock together

Ringer,

Don’t take it all so serious. If you had used a more humorous approach and not have temperament rule logic you would likely have noticed that I was neatly arranging to having you prepare and tighten the hanging rope yourself. :D

Let’s try again in a few days to pick up our interesting discussion to get perhaps more into the meat of things and see where your ideas perhaps are not quite conform to physics as it is being taught. ;)
 
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daniell

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Quote from Ringer .. "By definition an arc is constantly changing direction. It's non-linear."

So if the arc is "constantly changing direction', what make it so special that the clubhead is "changing direction" through impact? According to your statement, then the clubhead changes direction whether it hits the ball or not. If that's the case, doesn't this the 'change of direction' now become irrelevant during impact?
 
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shoot54today

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“Hand Speed is set up with the downstroke shoulder turn and remains at a constant MPH and RPM after initial acceleration The endless belt.”

If the clubhead is accelerating into impact, you will have a higher ballspeed than the same clubhead speed at impact that is constant,or decelerating. A clubhead moving at 100mph at impact and accelerating produces more ballspeed than a clubhead moving 100mph and decelerating. Ben teaches acceleration in front of the body.
 
mandrin

mandrin

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wheels go round and round

shoot54today said:
“Hand Speed is set up with the downstroke shoulder turn and remains at a constant MPH and RPM after initial acceleration The endless belt.”

If the clubhead is accelerating into impact, you will have a higher ballspeed than the same clubhead speed at impact that is constant,or decelerating. A clubhead moving at 100mph at impact and accelerating produces more ballspeed than a clubhead moving 100mph and decelerating.
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shoot54today,

It is the velocity of the clubhead at the moment of impact determining departure speed of the ball. Acceleration or deceleration of clubhead at the moment of impact has a negligible effect.
 
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Bigwill

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Is it known whether or not CHS is measured at impact or slightly before? If it is before impact, then how much before impact would the rate of acceleration make a difference?
 
Bronco Billy

Bronco Billy

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Bigwill said:
Is it known whether or not CHS is measured at impact or slightly before? If it is before impact, then how much before impact would the rate of acceleration make a difference?
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Hi There

The more Acceleration BEFORE Impact the Better...... At the Point of Impact the CHS is What It Is and the Launch Velocity of the Ball is Determined.....

Cheers
 
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shoot54today

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Measuring CHS prior to impact and at impact and documenting that there is a correlation between ballspeed and acceleration and deceleration. some golfers acceleration over the last 12" prior to impact and some decelerate. Hence, CHS of 100mph at impact will produce varying ballspeed numbers.

Several months ago I viewed some fascinating pictures of Tiger and a young Japanese female Pro comparing armspeed. Prior to impact Tiger accelerated much faster, while post impact the female was accelerating and Tiger was decelerating. She had speed, not up to Tiger naturally, but her acceleration was post impact, which was of no use.
 
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Bronco Billy

Bronco Billy

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shoot54today said:
Measuring CHS prior to impact and at impact and documenting that there is a correlation between ballspeed and acceleration and deceleration. some golfers acceleration over the last 12" prior to impact and some decelerate. Hence, CHS of 100mph at impact will produce varying ballspeed numbers.

Several months ago I viewed some fascinating pictures of Tiger and a young Japanese female Pro comparing armspeed. Prior to impact Tiger accelerated much faster, while post impact the female was accelerating and Tiger was decelerating. She had speed, not up to Tiger naturally, but her acceleration was post impact, which was of no use.
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Hi There

Here are some Equations that I HiJacked from another Forum.....
So what's the ball's velocity at departure?

Governing Equations:

1) Vclub * Mclub = V'club * Mclub + V'ball * Mball
2) V'ball - V'club = e(Vclub)

where the prime ' denotes after impact

let

Vclub = 100 mph
COR (e) = .83
Mclub = 200 gram
Mball = 49.6 gram

Then from 2)

V'ball = 83 + V'club

substituting into 1) yeilds

100*200 = V'club*200 +(83+V'club)*49.611
20000 = Vclub(249.611) + 4117.76
V'club = 63.62 mph
and
V'ball = 146.627 mph = 215.04 ft/sec <---

This is a Standard Set of Equations used by the Golf Industry for Various Reasons...... Notice Nothing about Acceleration.....

1. The clubhead arrives at Impact at 100 mph...
2. The clubhead leaves Impact at 63.62 mph....
3. The Ball is 0 mph at Impact......
4. The Ball Leaves Impact at 146.627 mph.....

Acceleration ONLY Comes into Play BEFORE Impact..... As Mandrin says The Collision between Clubhead and Ball is a very Private Meeting and Nothing Else is Involved....

Cheers
 
Bronco Billy

Bronco Billy

New member
daniell said:
F (impact) = F (clubhead) + F (shaft torque) + F (spring)

Any other forces involved?
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Hi There

Ok That is Your Function which You Say Describes What Really Happens..... Now let's See You Plug in some Real Data and if it Agrees With or Expands Upon the Conservation of Momentum Equations Used by the Golf Industry Then You Got Something...... If Your Real Data Doesn't Then You are Pissin in the Wind.....

Cheers
 
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daniell

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BrocoBilly,

You really don't have to be brilliant at mechanics to work out that simple equation:

F(clubhead) = force exerted by the clubhead on the ball while travelling at a certain acceleration (F= M (effective) * acceleration);

F(torque) = additional force exerted on the ball caused by the clubshaft torque/flex (?);

F(spring) = additional force on the ball caused by the spring effect of (1) ball and (2) clubface material/design (?);

It's been almost 15 years since I studied mechanics so I may not be entirely correct although I don't think I am too far off. The three forces above should be there and can explain some of the difference in ball distance caused by using different clubshaft, balls and clubheads.

Also what is used by the industry may be simplified to a constant or coffefficient to take care of certain variable, e.g. clubshaft torque, balls and clubface material. However, in that equation I am trying to identify all the forces involved.

What I am also showing you is that the "private meeting" may not be so private after all, just in case some of the readers take that statement in the wrong context. You can include the spring effect in the "private meeting between ball and clubhead" but not the additional force caused by the clubshaft.

cheers,

daniel

EDIT: "is not" change to "may not be".
 
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mjstrong

mjstrong

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daniell said:
BrocoBilly,
You really don't have to be brilliant at mechanics to work out that simple equation:

F(clubhead) = force exerted by the clubhead on the ball while travelling at a certain acceleration (F= M (effective) * acceleration);

F(torque) = additional force exerted on the ball caused by the clubshaft torque/flex (?);

F(spring) = additional force on the ball caused by the spring effect of (1) ball and (2) clubface material/design (?);
Click to expand...

I'm not a physics expert, but in this equation, wouldn't the Force added by the torque of the shaft be included in the F(clubhead)? I mean, the shaft merely adds speed to the clubhead, and wouldn't add anything else to the equation, no? Another way to look at this would be, if the clubhead was moving any slower, it wouldn't matter what the shaft was doing, the ball is not going to have any more force transferred to it, no?

EDIT: I think I remember reading that the collision between the clubhead and the ball has the clubhead acting like a free-floating object, as if it's not really connected to the shaft. I think I'm paraphrasing very poorly, but hope I get my point across.
Mandrin...?
 
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