Manzella grip and anti slice drill results

[Martee]

quote:Originally posted by ragman

.....

Martee (and all the other "YOUR neutral grip" guys):

Where has this "YOUR neutral grip" been proven?

The player with rounded shoulders will see more knuckles. The poorer the posture is, the 'stronger' the grip will be.

I am a big advocate of building a golfer's golf swing based on his structure. In your case here, we are talking structure. Is this structure going to influnce the golfer at impact?

If you go back to what I wrote and including what Dude added, I said this is a starting point and then adjust, Dude said adjust for direction.

quote:
Relax the left hand and take the grip? That left hand is NOT 'relaxed' at impact.

And we must also assume that the left hand will automatically match this position at speeds of over 100 MPH????

Yes relax, assuming any position with tension is not always valid. It is a starting point. Add tension, you can effect position and length. Static tension is not the same tension as you will have during motion, unless you intentionally create it.

Could be that if you are trying to match the body at speeds of over 100 mph, you may discover the body isn't even close to that speed. This could be a problem in your approach.

quote:
This "YOUR neutral grip" belongs in the same bin as "muscle memory"...the trash bin...

Well each to thier own opinion. I know I am not alone, nor did I coin the word Your Neutral Grip.

From my experience this has proven to work. Do golfers make adjustments, from time to time yes, but it seems to be pretty effective.

 

[ragman]

quote:Could be that if you are trying to match the body at speeds of over 100 mph, you may discover the body isn't even close to that speed. This could be a problem in your approach.

??

Please re-state or re-word....

quote:Yes relax, assuming any position with tension is not always valid. It is a starting point. Add tension, you can effect position and length. Static tension is not the same tension as you will have during motion, unless you intentionally create it.

You either have tension (any amount) or you don't.

Read Hogan, one you admire.

quote:From my experience this has proven to work. Do golfers make adjustments, from time to time yes, but it seems to be pretty effective.

With your premise, why not give each golfer the same grip and then make adjustments...(not saying this is correct)....

 

[Eagletau]

Martee

What a load of old bollocks...

Sure 'Dude' interjected with his very polite correction of your fundamentally-incorrect original comments but you were advocating the tired old neutral position with suck-it-and-see dial-in corrections.

What I'm objecting to is all this "free-advice' masquerading as fundamental knowledge. Very loose. And pernicious because it can lead people down garden-paths that are better not travelled.

Martee, you are very articulate but to me you often profer advice or analysis that is beyond your scope.

 

[EdZ]

Eagletau - what would be your 'correction' to what Martee posted? Perhaps you can help him/us understand, rather than putting him down for trying to share what his views are?

 

[Brian Manzella]

All I am saying is this...

I tried the NEUTRAL GRIP theory for years...and

THIS WORKS BETTER!

 

[Martee]

Interesting a poster has a question, I offered some suggestions that he may wish to check. He in particular question seeing 3 knuckles and I offered my opinion.

I have not said what Brian is advocation is wrong. Actually I recieved an email asking about his 'twist' and the reason. From the best I can tell the twist is move if done should over come at least the golfer cupping of the wrist at the top during c0cking. Seems there is still quite a few golfers who believe you c0ck both wrists. It seem reasonable to me. Hogan advocating the tighten of the last three fingers of the lead had which is kind of a mini twist, but Brian has evidently discover a more effective means in getting the golfer to the top in a goog position. JMO, I haven't talked to Brian.

As for my posts, rarely do I ever tell a golfer he needs to change something, I normally suggest that he investigate to determine what the problem is by either some exercises, positions, etc. I rarely ever state something is a fundamental requirement, in fact I have been accussed of being open to too many options and not being definitive enough.

Ragman, yes you have tension or you don't have tension, but you can generate the tension in different fashions and at different times. This can wreck your golf swing. Grip as tight as you can and start the golf swing, what types of problems does this cause. But yet have the hands react to the weight of the golf club during the swing, tightening up, and you can have a chance at a good golf swing. That is the difference I am trying to talk about.

Why not the same grip, well that is what has been done over the years and does seem to have worked very well based on the number of golfers who have bad grips. At least this way the golfer himself knows how to determine where to start or where he started and can then adjust based on results.

quote:Could be that if you are trying to match the body at speeds of over 100 mph, you may discover the body isn't even close to that speed. This could be a problem in your approach.

Probably not worth repeating, but the speed of 100 mph in the golf swing, that would be the clubhead, not any part of the body. A poor attempt at humor and just stating the obvious.

 

[Eagletau]

EdZ said:

quote: Eagletau - what would be your 'correction' to what Martee posted? Perhaps you can help him/us understand, rather than putting him down for trying to share what his views are?

I am not a teacher but a student. I really can't presume to tell anyone, unseen, what to do. And, given that all knowledge is 'provisional' (especially golf knowledge) I cannot to presume to instruct.

But, that doesn't mean I can't distinguish between what is 'real', ie of value, and that, that is less than 'real', or close to verbiage. When someone posts with the initials GSEB after his name, as a qualification, and then incorrectly quotes his authority - I believe he deserves to be called.

Ed in another thread, in the last few days, you were telling me to read The Golfing Machine . I think your advice to me is misdirected in this instance, and in many other instances.

Pay no heed to praise or blame
Nor argue with a fool

 

[golfbum22]

brianman how can i get a copy of your article on the grip ? thanks

 

[EdStraker]

The grip article is at:
http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Public/bmanzellasept03.pdf

 

[cherrybarry]

my neutral grip has worked well for me, so I guess I agree with Martee.

Brain, what if you had a student who had his palms facing in the 7 o'clock direction, assuming directly in front is 12 o'clcok. Would you teach him the same grip as everyone else? Or someone who's palms are facing directly in front in the direction that they are looking?

 

[benhogan54]

Wouldn't a "weaker" grip just require more roll of the forarms and a "stronger" grip require less? The player with more roll would want the weaker grip and the player with less roll want the stronger grip? Maybe not more or less roll, but sooner or later in the downswing? Each persons grip should depend on this timing...right? It is VERY clear that not all Tour players have the same grip.

 

[Eminem]

quote:Originally posted by Martee

quote:Originally posted by ragman

.....

Martee (and all the other "YOUR neutral grip" guys):

Where has this "YOUR neutral grip" been proven?

The player with rounded shoulders will see more knuckles. The poorer the posture is, the 'stronger' the grip will be.

I am a big advocate of building a golfer's golf swing based on his structure. In your case here, we are talking structure. Is this structure going to influnce the golfer at impact?

If you go back to what I wrote and including what Dude added, I said this is a starting point and then adjust, Dude said adjust for direction.

quote:
Relax the left hand and take the grip? That left hand is NOT 'relaxed' at impact.

And we must also assume that the left hand will automatically match this position at speeds of over 100 MPH????

Yes relax, assuming any position with tension is not always valid. It is a starting point. Add tension, you can effect position and length. Static tension is not the same tension as you will have during motion, unless you intentionally create it.

Could be that if you are trying to match the body at speeds of over 100 mph, you may discover the body isn't even close to that speed. This could be a problem in your approach.

quote:
This "YOUR neutral grip" belongs in the same bin as "muscle memory"...the trash bin...

Well each to thier own opinion. I know I am not alone, nor did I coin the word Your Neutral Grip.

From my experience this has proven to work. Do golfers make adjustments, from time to time yes, but it seems to be pretty effective.

Martee

Since when did you become an expert. HUH ! ! !

Now listen up 'old' man cos im only gonna say this once.

At what exact point did your ego grow big enough that one fine day you wake up and decide you have something to show people on hitting a ball with a stick. Just listen to yourself, you sprout more crap than an elderly(or young girl for you) woman thats been constipated for a week and the nurse in the home gives her an laxitive.

You like to envision yourself as a wise ol guy with a field of knowledge he can pass down onto the younger generation. However your vision and the reality difer.

Now your going to be 'when we were young we used to respect your elders'.... yeah yeah yawn .... Hey welcome to the 21st century boy !

 

[densikat]

[:I]

 

[benhogan54]

Eminem,
You really do need a good country ass whoopin. You run that mouth a lot and one day it's gonna be to the wrong person and you will end up with a broken face.

 

[bantamben1]

eminem whats your handicap by the way i saw your swing it was average jv player at best yoour like 14 15 years old right

 

[mothership]

eminem has an average swing?
it's a high handicappers swing. He knows it, so I don't think you're insulting him by telling him his swing isn't very good.

if Brian has a brain (I'm not sure that he does), he will just erase the stupid posts (even this one). it would be better for his forum.

 

[cherrybarry]

He doesn't want Ben Doyle looking at some of these posts on his forum[:0]

 

[Brian Manzella]

Hey cherry...NEWSFLASH! Ben has NEVER backed down on his swing opinions and I don't either...remember I am ITALIAN and a Y'at from Chalmette (THE PARISH) and I have my own style...for smoothness...see Rick Smith...all style.....

 

[300Drive]

quote:Originally posted by Eminem

quote:Originally posted by Martee

quote:Originally posted by ragman

.....

Martee (and all the other "YOUR neutral grip" guys):

Where has this "YOUR neutral grip" been proven?

The player with rounded shoulders will see more knuckles. The poorer the posture is, the 'stronger' the grip will be.

I am a big advocate of building a golfer's golf swing based on his structure. In your case here, we are talking structure. Is this structure going to influnce the golfer at impact?

If you go back to what I wrote and including what Dude added, I said this is a starting point and then adjust, Dude said adjust for direction.

quote:
Relax the left hand and take the grip? That left hand is NOT 'relaxed' at impact.

And we must also assume that the left hand will automatically match this position at speeds of over 100 MPH????

Yes relax, assuming any position with tension is not always valid. It is a starting point. Add tension, you can effect position and length. Static tension is not the same tension as you will have during motion, unless you intentionally create it.

Could be that if you are trying to match the body at speeds of over 100 mph, you may discover the body isn't even close to that speed. This could be a problem in your approach.

quote:
This "YOUR neutral grip" belongs in the same bin as "muscle memory"...the trash bin...

Well each to thier own opinion. I know I am not alone, nor did I coin the word Your Neutral Grip.

From my experience this has proven to work. Do golfers make adjustments, from time to time yes, but it seems to be pretty effective.

Martee

Since when did you become an expert. HUH ! ! !

Now listen up 'old' man cos im only gonna say this once.

At what exact point did your ego grow big enough that one fine day you wake up and decide you have something to show people on hitting a ball with a stick. Just listen to yourself, you sprout more crap than an elderly(or young girl for you) woman thats been constipated for a week and the nurse in the home gives her an laxitive.

You like to envision yourself as a wise ol guy with a field of knowledge he can pass down onto the younger generation. However your vision and the reality difer.

Now your going to be 'when we were young we used to respect your elders'.... yeah yeah yawn .... Hey welcome to the 21st century boy !

The words above are spoken like a true idiot of the highest order. Someone whose neighbors wishes would move to another part of the state, preferably the back woods where he could be in his best and most natural element with the other ill-tempered animals and away from civil human beings. What a joke.

 

[efnef]

[/quote]

The words above are spoken like a true idiot of the highest order. Someone whose neighbors wishes would move to another part of the state, preferably the back woods where he could be in his best and most natural element with the other ill-tempered animals and away from civil human beings. What a joke.
[/quote]

Nah. . . that's just Simple Motion (Eminem's old FGI handle) gone off his medications again. Time to bump up the Lithium dose.