Miller on the US Open

[Dariusz J.]

Yes Dariusz - those are your words, from the "Augusta a good test of golf?" thread. Since the thread is closed, I can't auto-quote, but that's a direct lift from you. Don't you recognise your own thoughts?

I never said I question the meaning (in fact this is in line with my beliefs) but the technical method of quoting someone. It brings suspicions to if a quote is original.

By your own admission, I think you're taking Miller's quote out of context then. His point might be that there's only one part of the course set-up that ISN'T harder, but you're not interested in the overall severity - just a test of driving accuracy.

Why not just launch an offshoot of Remax longdrive, and have a StraightDrive (TM) competition. Competitors will need to step up and try to land a golf ball on a ping pong table from a distance of, oh, perhaps 60 or 70 yards. Or even longer, if the competition heats up.?

You're changing the topic transferring it into land of fantasies. Typical when losing arguments. You know exactly what is my point yet still try to discredit me as strong as possible. Instead philosophing concentrate on what Miller said about pampered pros of today that does not know what real rough is. Geez.

All of that is irrelevant though. Your response to Ray Floyd illustrates perfectly why we will never agree on this. If you find a quote, like Miller's, which you think partially endorses or supports your agenda - you're happy to use it indiscriminately, regardless of the larger point that Miller might have been trying to make.
But if another "authority" - with a better, longer playing record says something that disputes your thesis, then they are dismissed as a "crybaby". Which begs the question: what, if anything, do you know about Ray Floyd?

As said, find me a link to Floyd's words first. I want to see what he really said.

Cheers

 

[Dariusz J.]

You can choose to take him as seriously as you want.

And viceversa, I take YOU as seriously as your posts are.

What is the difference between seeing European players and American ones ? European are better judging on recent Ryder Cup scores. I saw them and saw nothing special. Certainly I would be ashamed if I would have some statistics as the majority of them while doing NOTHING in their lives but hitting balls. I can see them on TV and YT clips and can assure you that I am a better real rough player than many of them.
Now laugh, but remember you have not seen me live. Geez....

Cheers

 

[birly-shirly]

I never said I question the meaning (in fact this is in line with my beliefs) but the technical method of quoting someone. It brings suspicions to if a quote is original.



You're changing the topic transferring it into land of fantasies. Typical when losing arguments. You know exactly what is my point yet still try to discredit me as strong as possible. Instead philosophing concentrate on what Miller said about pampered pros of today that does not know what real rough is. Geez.



As said, find me a link to Floyd's words first. I want to see what he really said.

Cheers

Dariusz - not everything you read on the internet is true. Equally, not everything that can't be found on the internet is fiction.

You'll need to find an archive of Golf Digest/(Golf World in Europe - I think) and check. Prob year 1987 - but possibly later.

You think that StraightDrive is a fantasy. I'm sorry to hear that, as I thought you might be a potential financial backer for my great idea. I accept though that it's just one dimension of the wider game of golf - the object of which is scoring. That's the bit you seem to have trouble accepting.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Dariusz - not everything you read on the internet is true. Equally, not everything that can't be found on the internet is fiction.

Oh yes ! It is a frigging useful situation, isn't it. If something is being found and not according to your beliefs you (and you-like) can always say it is an internet fiction. But in the opposite case you (and you-like) will use this till the end of the world. What a joke !
ROFL.

You'll need to find an archive of Golf Digest/(Golf World in Europe - I think) and check. Prob year 1987 - but possibly later.

I am not going to look anywhere. You brought this "argument" -- you support it.

You think that StraightDrive is a fantasy. I'm sorry to hear that, as I thought you might be a potential financial backer for my great idea. I accept though that it's just one dimension of the wider game of golf - the object of which is scoring. That's the bit you seem to have trouble accepting.

You must be out of your mind, mate. ReMAX was created for freaks that often are not golfers.
OTOH, a very important part of scoring in golf was always straight driving, unfortunately, it ceases to be. But if the policy goes in that silly devastating direction, ReMax choppers will come to play in various tours. Astounding perspective.

Cheers

 

[birly-shirly]

Oh yes ! It is a frigging useful situation, isn't it. If something is being found and not according to your beliefs you (and you-like) can always say it is an internet fiction. But in the opposite case you (and you-like) will use this till the end of the world. What a joke !
ROFL.




I am not going to look anywhere. You brought this "argument" -- you support it.

Sorry to hear that. I thought, as a truth-seeker, you'd be interested.

You must be out of your mind, mate. ReMAX was created for freaks that often are not golfers.

I'm an equal opportunities guy. I'd like to offer a share of the limelight for the straight hitting freak non-golfers out there.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Sorry to hear that. I thought, as a truth-seeker, you'd be interested.

I am. But I don't intend to do the job for you. When I quote someone -- I usually bring a confirmation link. That's the world goes, mate.

Besides, you still did not explain how it happened my name from an "original" quotation is written without capital first letter. Please do.

I'm an equal opportunities guy. I'd like to offer a share of the limelight for the straight hitting freak non-golfers out there.

Straight hitting freaks are always golfers, opposite to the long hitters. Because it is MUCH MORE DIFFICULT to be a straight hitter than a long hitting chopper thanks in 95% to Mother Nature.

OK, enough for me. I presented a case and what I am being offered are just irrevelant changed topics.

Cheers

 

[birly-shirly]

I am. But I don't intend to do the job for you. When I quote someone -- I usually bring a confirmation link. That's the world goes, mate.

No Dariusz. You've already explained that if I do your legwork for you and prove that Ray Floyd said that, word for word, then you'll dismiss his opinion as that of a "crybaby". That's how your argument works - unencumbered by facts.

Besides, you still did not explain how it happened my name from an "original" quotation is written without capital first letter. Please do.

I cut and pasted your comment - and prefaced it with "

". Now I've taken you into my confidence, I expect you not to abuse this knowledge.

 

[welshdentist]

Better rough player than most tour pro's?

Really? What are their faults? Unable to get height/advance ball?

 

[birly-shirly]

Breaking news
Interesting view from Miller on the greatest ever performance in the US Open.

It's not who (some of) you would think. It's not even from the era when rough was real rough and pros were real golfers.

I won't spoil things by giving the game away here.

But I will include a link

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/14/sports/14iht-GOLF.1.6136590.html

 

[birly-shirly]

Better rough player than most tour pro's?

Really? What are their faults?

Many and legion.

- Ungentlemanly athleticism.

- Frequent resort to the gym.

- Inappropriate use of titanium.

- Inadequate exploitation of balata and wound elastic.

- Failure to smoke

 

[Dariusz J.]

No Dariusz. You've already explained that if I do your legwork for you and prove that Ray Floyd said that, word for word, then you'll dismiss his opinion as that of a "crybaby". That's how your argument works - unencumbered by facts.

Nope. When I e.g. bring "arguments" not supported by links everyone would like me to prove that it was said this way or it happened this way. That's why I shut mouths with supporting them ad hoc. You brought info that Floyd said something that is totally unsuported by facts. And even if you are able to support it I would call Floyd a crybaby, but will not escape from admitting that there was/is a pro who said/says US Open tough setups are not good. The fact if I personally treat such words as pussy will not change facts.

I cut and pasted your comment - and prefaced it with "[q.uote=dariusz j]". Now I've taken you into my confidence, I expect you not to abuse this knowledge.

OK, thanks for the explanations -- but it is easier to use (") feature. No need for prefacing.

Better rough player than most tour pro's?

Really? What are their faults? Unable to get height/advance ball?

Nope. Overconfidence in their abilities, using wrong lofts and the most serious -- trying to make a follow through. Watch e.g. CanadianOpen2011 clip that was linked here in the thread and see how pathetic they are. And this rough is BARELY real rough.
Lastly, I said "from real rough", not just rough. Rough for today's pampered pros is like fairway for me on my home course. ROFL.

Cheers

 

[Lindsey Newman]

A bit of topic, but..

I always liked the U.S. Open set up with massive, barely back to the fairway rough. I especially like it when you can't just hit 2 iron off the tee.

I always like the pre - rough Masters.

I love the ground game of unfertilized, hard pan British Open with wind and light fescue

I like the normalcy of the PGA where it just a slight sharpening of a typical "tour" set up.

That's what always made the majors so special. Each one catered to a certain type of player, but to win the Grand Slam you had to:

1. Be accurate with undying mental strength to win the U.S.

2. Be long and have imagination to win the Masters

3. Be a pure trapping ball striker, "flight the ball down" and love the grind for the British Open

4. Be able to go lower than everyone else in an almost "shoot out" situation.

I think the identity of each major should be embraced and never marginalized.

 

[birly-shirly]

Great post.

 

[wulsy]

hey Dariusz, what about having Indian Tigers strolling about in the rough and at the same time infesting it will a load of poisonous snakes and disease ridden rats? Now that would really sort out the men from the poosies? No?

 

[DCgolf]

If Phil couldn't chip he'd be selling cars in San Diego
Justin Leonard should have stayed home this afternoon
Ian Poulter hit it like Hogan and putted like Watson
Criag Parrys swing would make Ben Hogan puke

Blah, blah, blah. So Johnny what do you do for a living? "I insult people on national TV for a living. I used to play golf, but I quit because I can't break 80 now. And anyway Im doing a lot better with this job. Cause when I insult people I get ratings and raises. It's pretty cool really. I thought about just describing the shots but whenever I insult some really good player, I get a lot of press. My boss loves it! And anyway the players today suck, the only good ones played in my era. Remember I used to shoot low scores on those really tough desert courses and once I win the Open. In fact I have TWO majors so I'm qualified to be an insulter no?

 

[birly-shirly]

Nope. When I e.g. bring "arguments" not supported by links everyone would like me to prove that it was said this way or it happened this way. That's why I shut mouths with supporting them ad hoc. You brought info that Floyd said something that is totally unsuported by facts. And even if you are able to support it I would call Floyd a crybaby, but will not escape from admitting that there was/is a pro who said/says US Open tough setups are not good. The fact if I personally treat such words as pussy will not change facts.

Dariusz - I think you're missing my broader point, which is this.

Miller has an opinion [which is his job]. Floyd has an opinion, which is different.

That's fine - they're just opinions. Asking for proof of someone's opinion is disproportionate. I'm not trying to prove that Floyd is right - although it's, dare I say it, almost conventional wisdom that the US Open can be a somewhat one-dimensional test of stamina.

People's opinions vary - from each other and from verifiable facts - for so many well-documented reasons that it would be too tedious to rehearse them all.

It's my opinion[!] - that you rely too much on people's expressed opinions in support of your arguments, and not enough on objective facts.

 

[OLIVER1]

I was asked this question thousand times. Nope, I haven't ever seen a tour pro live except Gary Player who came to Poland to open his signature course. The best players live I've seen was European Tour/ EPD Tour players.

Cheers

Dariusz,
How about you sock away some of that hard-earned zloty and come to the States for a U.S Open or a PGA?. I'm sure there are are any number of forum members who would open their doors to you for a couple of days, and don't you think you'd get a better feel for what's going on if you got to see these tour chaps up close and personal? While I doubt the experience would knock Hogan off his pedestal, you'd certainly spend a lot less time gazing upwards, and a bit more time doffing your hat to today's players.
P.S You can stay at my place, just give me a heads-up cos I'll have to vacuum the floors what with the amount of time you spend ROFL

 

[puttmaster]

As said, find me a link to Floyd's words first. I want to see what he really said.

Cheers

Here ya go:

Raymond Floyd remembers 1986 U.S. Open win 'like it was yesterday'

Excerpt:

Floyd loathed the United States Golf Association's severe set-ups, and it showed. Before he arrived to Shinnecock Hills, he had finished in the top 10 in the U.S. Open just twice in 21 tries.

"I'd always had a mental conflict about the way the USGA set up the golf courses," he said. "I had a little saying, 'They don't throw rocks on the court at Wimbledon.'

"But I loved this golf course. I loved the way it was set up. It was so good, you couldn't screw it up."

 

[birly-shirly]

Thanks puttmaster. That's not the actual interview I remember - but absolutely the same sentiments.

So it's official - Raymond Floyd is a crybaby.

Although one line in there "the grit and shotmaking that defined his career" would surely commend him otherwise to our Dariusz.

 

[gmbtempe]

I have played Scottsdale TPC right before the Phoenix Open and there were a couple things that struck me compared to say if I was going to go play it today. The rough is so much longer and thicker than normal, and this a course where the rough is probably only average as far as tour events go. If I hit in the rough I had to get lucky to get it on the green with anything but a short iron. The greens are MUCH harder, they spun great so you had to use spin to hold pitch shots but if you were hitting out of the rough, or I had a long iron/hyrbid in I found holding the greens hard.

That being said putting was just easy, greens were fast and pure, pick a line and if you made a good stroke I seemed to make everything. I shot 83 from the back tees (7200 yards at that time) but I made a lot of putts.

I cant imagine how hard a US Open is where there is real rough and super narrow fairways, with greens that Hogan never had to putt (speed wise and I would imagine hardness as well).