Miller on the US Open

[Dariusz J.]

Yes. Here's Phil finding the worst of it...

This is also very decent rough. Most probably Mickelson hacked so much off that he found that rough in 2011. I saw a light rough near fairways there.

Here's a video talking about what the USGA had in mind for graduated rough for the 2011 US Open.
It was pretty much what they wanted just days before the event started. Weather didn't cooperate
during the week and the rough wasn't as severe as they wanted overall. There were spots where it
was pretty gnarly as shown above. BTW, you never answered my question in post #75.


Graduated rough at Congressional for 2011 U.S. Open | GOLF.com

I did. I said the pics show very decent rough. Exactly my image for US Open standards.

The graduated rough is a brilliant idea and very fair. We discussed it before.
Just to give you a hint what is the rough on my course usually -- fairways are more like this 1st cut; then 2-meters' wide semi-fairway something between 2nd and 3rd cut, then real rough that sometimes is like the worst shown and sometimes much worse.

Oh, of course they should have known exactly what was going to happen well in advance. Hell, why stop there, they should've just stopped mowing the summer before just in case and told all the members to either man up or pound sand. The USGA has only been doing it since 1895. But I'm sure with all of your vast experience in tournament golf, and setting up major championships you would have known better then them.

Why are you so vicious ? I said this because I know very well when rough becomes real rough after mowing. Rough on my home course is usually being mown only several times a year. It is hardly possible that rough grow so much within a week. E.g. the highest rough they showed at the Congressional clip usually grows 2-3 weeks from mowing. It happens that we play against 2-month's old rough grass on our course.
It must have been a mistake, since everyone said it was wrong for US Open standards. Why to defend instead admitting the truth ?

Cheers

 

[Nitro7]

I did.

Cheers

No. You didn't.

 

[wulsy]

Dariusz, don't you think that overly penal rough detracts from strategic and skilled play to the same degree as rough that is too short and has little effect on the golfer's ability to hit it close with his next shot?

Off topic: How do you think the Euros will go in Poland and the Ukraine? I hear a lot of talk of organised hooligans and a lot about racism and neo-n**is? Is the problem being exaggerated here in the "west"? Is it safe to go?

 

[Dariusz J.]

No. You didn't.

Post #76, last sentence before my usual "Cheers": "These pics show decent real rough."

Dariusz, don't you think that overly penal rough detracts from strategic and skilled play to the same degree as rough that is too short and has little effect on the golfer's ability to hit it close with his next shot?

Perhaps yes, but I regard accuracy as more important factor that should be rewarded. Hitting fairways and greens should be the biggest reward. E.g. I imagine you're talking about situation that it is better to hit to the rough (that is small enough) deliberately to have a better angle of attack to a given pin, yes ?

Off topic: How do you think the Euros will go in Poland and the Ukraine? I hear a lot of talk of organised hooligans and a lot about racism and neo-n**is? Is the problem being exaggerated here in the "west"? Is it safe to go?

Idiots and bandits are everywhere. Neonazis in Poland ? There still lives a generation that remembers Hitler and Stalin. Marginal issues. I think people from Western countries exaggerate a bit, but one should use caution always. Besides, this is the first such a big game in free Poland and authorities will stand on hair to show that everything is good and safe.
Ukraine -- can be a bit different, but I wouldn't expect a tragedy there as well.

Cheers

 

[ekennedy]

D-

Would you respect a player who doesn't hit fairways or greens but consistently shoots par or better in the most difficult of conditions on the toughest of golf courses?

I'm just curious if scoring is as important to you as great ball striking.

I remember having a conversation (of sorts) with Moe Norman, and he didn't respect the short game and didn't truly consider it the equal of great ball striking.

I hope you don't feel the same way. If so, then you don't truly respect the game.

There's a reason Joe Durant can't keep his Tour card.

 

[duckjr78]

Guys, it's a trick, and he keeps sucking you in.

In internet parlance, "Don't feed the trolls."

 

[Nitro7]

Post #76, last sentence before my usual "Cheers": "These pics show decent real rough."


Cheers

The question about the rough in the pics was rhetorical. Is there one single human being on
the planet that would not consider the rough in those pics as severe? No there isn't. Well not
you, of course. It's only decent. "Ladies and gentlemen, deep rough expert...Dariusz J."

The question you failed to answer (How so?) concerned your irrational comments about me.

 

[Dariusz J.]

D-

Would you respect a player who doesn't hit fairways or greens but consistently shoots par or better in the most difficult of conditions on the toughest of golf courses?

I'm just curious if scoring is as important to you as great ball striking.

I remember having a conversation (of sorts) with Moe Norman, and he didn't respect the short game and didn't truly consider it the equal of great ball striking.

I hope you don't feel the same way. If so, then you don't truly respect the game.

There's a reason Joe Durant can't keep his Tour card.

It's a good and tough question for me. I'll try to do my best to answer -- while it is true that I'd enjoy much more 100%FIR and 100%GIR round with 36 putts giving the score 72 than hacking from rough to rough andf end with 71 because of pure luck and great putting/scrambling (yes, I understand fully Moe Norman here) -- as an avid tournament player I must aadmit that the game is being played for the lowest score. So, yes, lowest score is more important than my private preferences.
I admire today's pros abilities of scrambling putting and executing recovery shots. I respect them a lot for it. I simply cannot respect them for areas they are not good enough taking into account hours spent on golf. They aren't the guilty ones only, first of all USGA/R&A is guilty for not creating conditions that would help to make complete players/ballstrikers out of them.

Guys, it's a trick, and he keeps sucking you in.

In internet parlance, "Don't feed the trolls."

You must be out of your mind if you think I am a troll. ROFL

The question about the rough in the pics was rhetorical. Is there one single human being on
the planet that would not consider the rough in those pics as severe? No there isn't. Well not
you, of course. It's only decent. "Ladies and gentlemen, deep rough expert...Dariusz J."

The question you failed to answer (How so?) concerned your irrational comments about me.

Well, actually I feel I am sort of amateur (your favourite word, isn't it) expert on rough. I could teach many of better players than me how to deal with decent rough. In fact, I already said how without being even asked. This is my agenda, see ?
Instead trying to humiliate an amateur you'd better say a few things out of your extensive professional experiences how to deal with this "severe" rough. At least we could discuss it and let people learn something.

What is wrong with the word "decent" in the context we're speaking about, BTW ? Is "decent enough for US Open" better ?

Cheers

 

[Nitro7]

I could teach many of better players than me how to deal with decent rough.

Cheers

No you can't. This is where you lose touch with reality. Sad actually. Definitely a fallacy.

I don't have favorite words. Amateur just describes someone who is not a professional.

There is nothing wrong with the word decent, it implies something less than the ultimate.

You still haven't answered my question. Probably because there's no good answer to
those empty-headed, dimwitted comments you made about me.

I feel it's not my place to give instruction on this website. This is BManz's domain and if
you want to know something about the golf swing or hitting shots ask Brian or one of his
instructors.

I come here to find out what his creative mind is contemplating and all the data that his
brainstorming produces. Every now and then, someone like you says something really
stupid and I end up responding to it. My bad.

 

[carrera]

A few thoughts. For about 30 years I have been a member of a club that has hosted numerous USGA events (including US Opens), and have had the opportunity to play the course in conditions similar (rough height, green firmness, fairway firmness) to the championship conditions, and I'll just say that it is very hard to appreciate what a difference it is. I've played the course hundreds of times and it is like a completely different course...unrecognizable...under USGA conditions. Not even close (and only fun in a masochistic sense, NTTAWWT).

In 1955 and other opens of that vintage, the host club was in charge of setup. Hence the long rough at Olympic's 18th hole where Hogan ended up after hooking his drive.

Re: Floyd, take his comments re Shinnecock with a grain of salt...he is a member there and naturally would put that course in a favorable light.

 

[Dariusz J.]

No you can't. This is where you lose touch with reality. Sad actually. Definitely a fallacy.

Nope. What is really sad is that your hatrid crusade aimed at humiliating me makes you sound slightly retarded. One can be a specialist in a narrow part. A ReMAX contender can easily give longdriving lessons to much better players overall. A sandwedge beach player can teach much better players how to operate with a sand wedge the best way. Same as I can teach easily a pampered US scratch player how to play from rough most effectively.
If you can't understand such simple things I cannot imagine how you could become a golf professional.

Now I see what question you wanted me to answer -- this one, yes ?

"You must be a tired unsuccesful jealous bitter man."
"Really? How so?"
"Because your attitude to these who you disagree shows how many mental complaints you must suffer."

Sorry I have not seen it earlier -- thought your question was "Is this deep enough rough for you?".

Now we are square. Do not sweat to write any more posts because I won't bother with responding.

Ciao.

 

[Dariusz J.]

A few thoughts. For about 30 years I have been a member of a club that has hosted numerous USGA events (including US Opens), and have had the opportunity to play the course in conditions similar (rough height, green firmness, fairway firmness) to the championship conditions, and I'll just say that it is very hard to appreciate what a difference it is. I've played the course hundreds of times and it is like a completely different course...unrecognizable...under USGA conditions. Not even close (and only fun in a masochistic sense, NTTAWWT).

Moment, moment. So you want to say that this course was being prepared the same way for US Opens as well as for normal tour events ? Or you just describe how tough were these US Open events on your course ?

Cheers

 

[wulsy]

Nope. What is really sad is that your hatrid crusade aimed at humiliating me makes you sound slightly retarded. One can be a specialist in a narrow part. A ReMAX contender can easily give longdriving lessons to much better players overall. A sandwedge beach player can teach much better players how to operate with a sand wedge the best way. Same as I can teach easily a pampered US scratch player how to play from rough most effectively.
If you can't understand such simple things I cannot imagine how you could become a golf professional.

Now I see what question you wanted me to answer -- this one, yes ?

"You must be a tired unsuccesful jealous bitter man."
"Really? How so?"
"Because your attitude to these who you disagree shows how many mental complaints you must suffer."

Sorry I have not seen it earlier -- thought your question was "Is this deep enough rough for you?".

Now we are square. Do not sweat to write any more posts because I won't bother with responding.

Ciao.

Love it Dariusz. One of your best ever.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Love it Dariusz. One of your best ever.

Thanks. However, I do not like writing such posts at all. Only when forced to

Cheers

 

[Nitro7]

I do not like writing such posts at all. Only when forced to

Cheers

You started this thread to use JM's comments about how rough in his era of playing in US
Opens was more severe to promote your opinions about deep rough.

Go back and read the first six pages. Many others jumped on you right away, especially
birly-shirly. My comments pale in comparison. I just spoke the truth. You put words in my
mouth and try to make it sound like I hate you and want to humiliate you. I've repeatedly
said I do not feel that way at all.

You claim I'm tired, unsuccessful, jealous, and bitter, yet those are all untrue. I call you an
inexperienced amateur because you ARE!! You are insincere because you did have an under-
lying agenda. It's amazing how you completely misinterpret so many posts and end up going
into a major defensive mode. Must be the language barrier. At least I'm not vicious like that
awful johnnymarlboro. LOL

 

[Jared Willerson]

Time to shut it down.