More than 4 Accumulators??

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David Alford

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Jim, I very clear on it now that I know HK's DEFINITIONS. It's very basic and if that helps people, fine. I just would not go about the way he did. I don't think it helps the reader. What helps is knowing HOW power is applied and blended.

Further, if you understand power accumulators, I'm sure you'll are there are more than 4! So far no one has challenged my statement. How HK could make such a big deal of them and then omit several is beyond me.

Re: your comment: "eeeehhhhhhh.........wrooooooooong." Nope...in a real swing, the straightening right will help #4 zero out. If you wait until the absolutely last nanosecond, it's too late to derive benefit. Hence it is part of #4, practically. Or if you prefer, straightening the right influences #4.
 
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Non-AuthorizedTGM

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In Zone #2..which is the Power Package...there are only 4 accumulators period....

However the linkage of the Pivot Train....acts as a power source...especially when using a transfer of momentum from link to link( Joint and Segment angles if you really want to get accurate..yes there are many power sources....The Body Power is Zone #1

But there are only 4 Power Accumulators in the Power Package which is Zone #2...

For the Simpletons out there...Power accumulators are angles that "expand" toward an in-line conditon...

Go watdch Brians Vid...that's as simple as it gets!!!
 
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David Alford

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Well, HK left out the right wrist angle straightening. And that is not necessarily part of the right arm straightening. The right arm can straighten w/o the right wrist angle straightening.
 
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David Alford

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Clearly, both the right and straightening #5 and rotating #6 meet the definition of going from out of line to an inline condition. #5 and #6 can be blended, but not necessariy. And they can also be blended with the straighening right arm (elbow joint), but not necessarily.
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

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Do you really think Homer ommited these "accumulators" because he forgot about them, or he was didn't think hard enough, or he had a late night, or he was too tiered, or he couldn't be bothered to put them in, or he made a mistake...or do you think he left them out on purpose?


[rhetorical question]
 
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MizunoJoe

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quote:Originally posted by tongzilla

Do you really think Homer ommited these "accumulators" because he forgot about them, or he was didn't think hard enough, or he had a late night, or he was too tiered, or he couldn't be bothered to put them in, or he made a mistake...or do you think he left them out on purpose?


[rhetorical question]
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That statement suggests he couldn't possibly be wrong or have missed something or changed his mind. There are six editions of the book you know, and there are some significant differences.
 
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MizunoJoe

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quote:Originally posted by swing-geek

I just got introduced to HK, TGM, and these forums a week ago and it has been a great experience. Lots of intelligent input here. And Homer's work "The Golf Machine" is quite impressive. As a working engineer for many years, I really appreciate his analytical approach to the golf swing.

But something just seemed to be missing in the 4 accumulators and it finally occurred to me today what it was. Before I even state what I think the missing piece is, it may be covered by accumulator 4, but I have yet to see that it is.

Accumulators 2 and 3 pretty much cover what happens in the wrist. Accumulator 1 covers the right elbow. But Accumulator 4 seems to only cover half the vector of how the left arm moves. It describes how the arm folds across the body, but not how it lifts.

Accumulator 5 would be the angle formed by the spine and the left arm. This angle must be measured from the "behind the shot" view at address and the "front on" view of the golfer at the top of the swing. Most players would be around 20 - 30 degrees at address (depending on club selected) and 150 degrees at the top (guestimating here).

Ah well, that's my two cents - what do you all think?
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#4 covers the lift, which would be the angle between 0 degs up to about 45 degs above the shoulder line.
 
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David Alford

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<Do you really think Homer ommited these "accumulators" because he forgot about them, or he was didn't think hard enough, or he had a late night, or he was too tiered, or he couldn't be bothered to put them in, or he made a mistake...or do you think he left them out on purpose?>

I only said he left them out. Clearly, HK did NOT list or explain all the accumulators. Everyone here has said accumulators #1-4 are ALL the accumulators. I'm just saying, wait a second, that's not really true.

Please take note, I did NOT attack HK.

The fact is, as MJ points out, there have been six editions...HK no doubt was striving to be complete...
 
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6bee1dee

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quote:Originally posted by David Alford

Well, HK left out the right wrist angle straightening. And that is not necessarily part of the right arm straightening. The right arm can straighten w/o the right wrist angle straightening.
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Yes he did leave it out. One of the few correct statements you have made.

But, Homer was talking about power accumulators that drive the ball. The right hand, if it flattens, comes after impact. If you flatten the right hand before impact- well that is your problem. So the flattening of the right hand can't be an accumulator- just bad golf.
 
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David Alford

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Using that logic, the same would be true for the left wrist and right arm straightening! Please
revisit Brians' video.

6bee, you have attacked me again, personally. It doesn't elevate you.

Earlier you said I never add anything to the discussion. I just increased the number of power accumulators by 50%.

And I did so by simply stating what they were w/o attacking anyone here who said there can't be any more. Nor did
I attack HK.
 
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6bee1dee

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quote:Originally posted by David Alford

Using that logic, the same would be true for the left wrist and right arm straightening! Please
revisit Brians' video.

6bee, you have attacked me again, personally. It doesn't elevate you.

Earlier you said I never add anything to the discussion. I just increased the number of power accumulators by 50%.

And I did so by simply stating what they were w/o attacking anyone here who said there can't be any more. Nor did
I attack HK.
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The arm straightens into and through impact- the so-called flattening of the right wrist occurs after impact - so it can't add anything but bad golf.

You increased accumulators by 50 per cent? How? Being wrong adds nothing.

Sorry for the attacks but you are total fool. If you knew anything about TGM- you would know how the Flying Wedges work and how power is accumulated and delivered. Maybe all that independent exploration (find the dog yet?) yielded nothing but misinformation.

You mistake pressure points as some kind of power point or accumulator which they are not. That is what your power draining right hand flattening is, a misdirected- misused pp3.


Brian, you can delete this post,too. So reads fast.
 
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Non-AuthorizedTGM

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If one truly understands....

The difference between longitudinal acceleration vs.radial acceleration and how they relate to the Left Arm Flying Wedge and the Right Foream Flying Wedge ..this debate ends quickly......

DA ...the only points that I would agree with you on ...is yes ...there are other places within the system that apply "pressure" look at both feet into the ground...during start down for a swingers's "sit down" Snead or O'Grady...yes there are points of pressure in the feet...but is there a power accumulator located in the feet? There is a pressure point without an accumulator.....As a matter affect there are a lot forces in the system tha create pressure...tensile forces, frictional forces, gravity that are not really addressed clearly in TGM.....However...Power Accumulators are "areas of force production"....muscle,velocity,transfer, and radius.....

BTW if you use the flattening right wrist as a power acccumulator ...good luck fixing the bent plane lines that will result...diifferent planelines, angles of approach, and clubhshaft leans require different degrees of right wrist bend!!!

NAT
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

New
quote:Originally posted by Non-AuthorizedTGM

If one truly understands....

The difference between longitudinal acceleration vs.radial acceleration and how they relate to the Left Arm Flying Wedge and the Right Foream Flying Wedge ..this debate ends quickly......
Click to expand...

Sounds interesting NAT, would you mind giving us a brief explanation?
 
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David Alford

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Calm down 6bee...life is short. Don't carry grudges from post to post. Stop being a religious fanatic about TGM. TGM does not have to be perfect for it to be worthy. I honestly think HK would've immediately agreed regarding #5 and #6 being added to the list. And btw, Tasmania is great, I live there now partime. The nice thing, people are sincerely friendly.

To address your point, straightening of the right wrist does not have to occur early in the downswing, it could happen into impact as a process. That is precisely why I used the term "straightening". Strictly speaking, as you agree, the right arm is not straightened by impact, either. It also is "straightening".

Tonzilla, I never said #5 is something I do. In fact, if you click on link below, you'll see I am not straightening the right wrist. I don't advise it.
I'm only saying it can be an accumulator. If straightening the left wrist downward is an accumulator, so is straightening the right wrist. It's as simple as that.

So, far, no one has commented on #6. Perhaps because of the realization if rotating the left hand is an accumulator per Brian's explanation, so must rolling the right also be an accumulator? If you're a hitter and want to hook the ball, #6 might come in handly, if you'll excuse the pun.
 
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