NEW BLOCKBUSTER 20 minute VIDEO - Preliminary ENSO Findings - by Brian Manzella

[Dariusz J.]

Brian, does this research take into account RoM of joints ? If not it is not worth much. Freewheeling means overcoming joints' RoM thanks to other joints' RoM free space to the limit.
Handle draggers are a joke because they never use any biolimits and thought geometry was more important than physics or anatomy ROFL. Not mentioning those who think that letting the wrists bent after separation is just an error LOL and do not understand them adds CHS. Actually it is a joke that Kelley dismissed the rear wrist hinging as one of the "accumulators" especially taking into account that the vast majority of RH golfers have a dominant RH.
But you guys must be aware what happens when the limit is being met in human's hard structure. What happens with wrist joints when e.g. ulnar deviation biolimit has been reached, what happens when you push instead pull, etc.

As regards the dreaded rate of closure -- it is a derivative of a pivot effectiveness. Have you measured the correlation between e.g. openess of shoulders girdle at impact with the rate of closure ?

Cheers

 

[Brian Manzella]

is the alignment fine as long as you don't drag the handle to get there, or if your handle is in that position no matter how it got there you are going to have issues?

The alignment is fine if it produces the desired D-Plane.

Trust me, Dustin is producing ONE D-plane top vector with that club of his, but if he used Bubba's, it wouldn't get airborne.

You can see that DJ is freewheeling the clubhead thru impact, while some "handle-draggers" are trying to rotate the whole body and clubshaft together at the same rpm's a la TGM "rhythm". Not the same thing IMO.

The last thing you would want in the world is "TGM rhythm."

The swing just doesn't come close to working like that.

I think part of my understanding was that if you had that "TGM handle ahead" look that somehow that meant you had screwed something up, in reality its not the look thats the issue but how you are achieving it.

Absolutely!

You could have forward hands and HIGH handle rotation speed, or not so forward hands and VERY SLOW handle rotation speed.

I never think about FATS, or dragging this or that in my current instruction but my alignments (handle location/shaft lean) are getting closer to DJ and further away from say Fred Couples and just was wondering how that fits into the issues discussed herein.

You might be slowing down the handle.

maybe, but contact is oh so much better.

Like I said in the video, if it works for you....keep doing it.

But!

I was a better ball striker than you two weeks ago, and was actively trying NOT to drag anything down by the ball.

But, since the ENSO-Pro days (I was on it two separate days), and now KNOWING my handle was too slow, I've picked up 10 yards with my driver, and about 8 with my irons.

No other changes.

Brian, does this research take into account RoM of joints ? If not it is not worth much. Freewheeling means overcoming joints' RoM thanks to other joints' RoM free space to the limit.

Nobody is hurting themselves. ALL info is good info IF it is actuate and NOT biased.

....it is a joke that Kelley dismissed the rear wrist hinging as one of the "accumulators" ...

Pretty much.

As regards the dreaded rate of closure -- it is a derivative of a pivot effectiveness. Have you measured the correlation between e.g. openess of shoulders girdle at impact with the rate of closure ?

We will.

Like I said in the video, right now, our best guess is simply left arm club angle, uncorking, and MPH.

 

[Todd Dugan]

I would assume the issue is pulling the handle and not the location of the handle? I assume he did not drag anything, just rotated and swung the club?

Doesn't look like DJ is releasing that clubshaft past the left arm very quickly. If he could just speed up that handle rotation, perhaps he could get some respectable distance.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Pretty sure it going FAST AS HELL from yellow line to yellow line.

 

[tongzilla]

I think with a bit of talent and persistence if you just try to generate as much club head speed as possible with reasonable impact stats you should naturally end of with a "good" rate of closure number or any other number you may want to measure

...my point is, don't be a puss and swing slow to try to be more accurate...use your god given abilities to generate some speed with that clubhead!

 

[Kevin Shields]

I think with a bit of talent and persistence if you just try to generate as much club head speed as possible with reasonable impact stats you should naturally end of with a "good" rate of closure number or any other number you may want to measure

...my point is, don't be a puss and swing slow to try to be more accurate...use your god given abilities to generate some speed with that clubhead!

I think I found my new signature.....either this or try to hit yourself in the sack like someone else described

 

[Dariusz J.]

...my point is, don't be a puss and swing slow to try to be more accurate...use your god given abilities to generate some speed with that clubhead!

LOL...the point is to hit as hard as possible and not spread all over the place ! What is very funny -- some would like to hit as hard as possible not worrying about consequences; some would like to gain accuracy via limiting power...ROFL.

Cheers

 

[James Marshall (Hogan1953)]

Brian,

In your faster "spiderman hand" swing in order to get the handle rotate faster, did you feel as you were going "more normal" or something else and if so when did you start applying that something else. Thanks.

James

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I think with a bit of talent and persistence if you just try to generate as much club head speed as possible with reasonable impact stats you should naturally end of with a "good" rate of closure number or any other number you may want to measure

...my point is, don't be a puss and swing slow to try to be more accurate...use your god given abilities to generate some speed with that clubhead!

Sometimes the harder i swing and the more i let the clubhead freewheel the more accurate i am because i'm not getting in the way of the club squaring itself up.

 

[JonWil]

Is Harvey Penick's instruction concept of 'swing the handle' consistent with these findings?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Is Harvey Penick's instruction concept of 'swing the handle' consistent with these findings?

I think it was Eddie Merrins and I would say no it is not.

 

[dschultz6072]

My teacher I parted ways with a couple years ago tried to get me to swing the handle. Of course, every good ballstriker he sees on the range he likes to say "He's good because he keeps the handle moving". He asks if I can see it. I can't, but I tell him I do anyway. He's getting old so I don't want to go that route.

BTW, did you happen to get the number for face rotation at impact of the pro?

 

[bryan@nobackswing.com]

really good stuff. with this info on handle movement, i'm thinking it would be safe to say that someone who has a lot of lag late in the downswing and can get to normal by impact should have higher club head speed than someone who doesn't, all other things equal. and if he continues to "spiderman" past impact, that would seem to be more evidence of an optimal speed move.

 

[rprevost]

You aint right.

"Sic'em Bears!"

 

[JonWil]

I think it was Eddie Merrins and I would say no it is not.

OOps, Merrins for sure; thanks for the correction.

 

[mandrin]

Sometimes the harder i swing and the more i let the clubhead freewheel the more accurate i am because i'm not getting in the way of the club squaring itself up.

Jim,
It appears indeed a bit of a paradox that letting go, free wheeling, might be more accurate. However the more you are able to let go the more the motion is ruled by physics, hence more machine like. One might believe this actually to happen when you very deliberately control all of the motion, but is not really the case as this involves many variables controlled by the golfer himself and not by the laws governing motion.

 

[Vortex]

One of the things I left out is where everyone that can break 80 has maximum hand speed—way, way before impact. About when the hands get waist high on the downswing.

Yesterday was the first chance I got to try to implement what this thread discusses in my swing.

Took me a while to align my swing plane and sequencing with the physics of the 'free-wheeling' hands as Mandrin put it, initially I got a lot of hooks, and when I finally got it, very nice indeed.

My observations:

1. The squaring of the clubface happens more powerfully, ie. it takes less time to square up. Therefore, I can delay the squaring until much later in the swing. Consistent with the concept of the 'delayed hit', and with what brian@nobackswing posted above.
2. The added power gives me more distance without any perceptible increase in effort. If anything, the hands and wrists felt more relaxed because I am no longer trying to 'hold' the geometry.
3. The increase in power is felt also evidenced by the bending of the shaft, which felt 'softer' than usual.
4. It seemed to work better for a more 'punch elbow' than 'pitch elbow', esp for shorter clubs.

Whichever club I tried this on, it delivered more distance.

At this rate, I'm going to have to put my thank you's to Brian, his team, the scientists and not forgetting the many valuable contributors on this site into my signature, because it seems every time I post, I have something to thank them about.

My gratitude for the fantastic work on this site.

Peace.

 

[spmurph]

Does the average amount of handle rotation vary throughout the set?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Does the average amount of handle rotation vary throughout the set?

That is a great question.

My guess, based on all evidence, is you show have MORE as the club gets longer.

 

[Jared Willerson]

It's funny but I can do it better with a wedge.