Frans@France
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!!!!! thanks !!!!
NSA 2 questions
- Thread starter Frans@France
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!!!!! thanks !!!!
Why not with the left hand?
golfbulldog
New
Not sure but i found that when my left arm pulled in transition i lost the twistaway unless i had active right forearm twistaway...Frans has aggressive move and i bet his left forearm loses twist when he pulls with left arm in transition...maybe...
I know what you mean. I've been working on this, and have been using my left hand; tried the right, but it wouldn't behave. At first, it almost felt like I had to grit my teeth to maintain the twist. It's starting to get better (a little) but it's gonna take some focused work.
I didn't think about it this way. I'll have to try it too.
Frans@France
New
NSA without twistaway, please
Very frustating day.
I normally have no swing thoughts but when trying to twistaway somehow I need to really concentrate and it takes to much attention. After some 50 balls I was ready to start breaking things. Lucky only the ball broke after trying some 300 shots extra
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As I can't do the twistaway with the left hand I use the right hand, I think that "activating" the right hand makes my move even more OTT?
Very frustating day.
I normally have no swing thoughts but when trying to twistaway somehow I need to really concentrate and it takes to much attention. After some 50 balls I was ready to start breaking things. Lucky only the ball broke after trying some 300 shots extra <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/K0HjQ6xIdw4?hl=nl&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/K0HjQ6xIdw4?hl=nl&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
As I can't do the twistaway with the left hand I use the right hand, I think that "activating" the right hand makes my move even more OTT?
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lookingtolearn
New
Very frustating day.
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As I can't do the twistaway with the left hand I use the right hand, I think that "activating" the right hand makes my move even more OTT?
You need to do what Brian suggested. Focus on finishing with the butt of the club pointing at the target (it will be slightly less than a full finish). Practice it until you can do it, then video it and post it up.
You have a very good end position (at the very top, at end of backswing).
And then you have a horrendous 1st move...some combination of right shoulder out (toward ball) and hip/shoulder move. Seems like you could use an intermediate target of dropping your hands to the right foot. Jmo.
And then you have a horrendous 1st move...some combination of right shoulder out (toward ball) and hip/shoulder move. Seems like you could use an intermediate target of dropping your hands to the right foot. Jmo.
softconsult
New
So let me just offer up my impression.
1. I see set up problems. The descriptive words are fidgety, nervous,
handsy, jumpy. I would say too much knee flex and bending from the stomach
rather than hanging from the waist. I think the barefoot thing is a bad idea.
2. I think your waggle needs to be changed. All than moving the clubhead up
and down is programming wrist movements that are not going to help your
swing action.
3. Now comes the swing. It's an iron. Why are you taking that iron back that far?
Why is it being swung with all that force?
You are applying massive force way too early. Result is a rather violent out and down
across the line swing.
I say to hell with twist away, and all that. Let's see a video of a 100 yard little shot with
a Pitching Wedge. I know, your Pitching Wedge carries 130. That's why I would like to see
whether you can tone it down, and execute a partial shot. I don't see how you learn a new
motion using a 100%, full out swing.
I know I'm blunt, but really just trying to help.
1. I see set up problems. The descriptive words are fidgety, nervous,
handsy, jumpy. I would say too much knee flex and bending from the stomach
rather than hanging from the waist. I think the barefoot thing is a bad idea.
2. I think your waggle needs to be changed. All than moving the clubhead up
and down is programming wrist movements that are not going to help your
swing action.
3. Now comes the swing. It's an iron. Why are you taking that iron back that far?
Why is it being swung with all that force?
You are applying massive force way too early. Result is a rather violent out and down
across the line swing.
I say to hell with twist away, and all that. Let's see a video of a 100 yard little shot with
a Pitching Wedge. I know, your Pitching Wedge carries 130. That's why I would like to see
whether you can tone it down, and execute a partial shot. I don't see how you learn a new
motion using a 100%, full out swing.
I know I'm blunt, but really just trying to help.
I agree, until some other things are addressed first what's the point of adding more to the pile. Just more to try and do and think about while not fixing the biggest problems first. Just my 2 cents.
Frans@France
New
arrg..... wrote a long reply and when posting the site had me logout and the reply was lost
So, now for the short version
- can you explain "bending from the stomach rather than hanging from the waist" ?
- yes, the waggle needs to be changed, I agree.
- "using force" is my nature. I do that with everything I do. If I would create a shorter backswing and swing slower the stress buildup / tension after 10 hits would be high. I could not continue hitting balls. But when swinging like I do I can do that for 500 hits at that speed and then still accelerate.
- 100 yards PW in slow-mo? toe / shank / fat. Losing timing and feeling.
No worries ! much appreciated!
Frans@France
New
softconsult
New
"using force" is my nature. I do that with everything I do. If I would create a shorter backswing and swing slower the stress buildup / tension after 10 hits would be high. I could not continue hitting balls. But when swinging like I do I can do that for 500 hits at that speed and then still accelerate."
I take you at your word, but I think you just don't understand how to do it. Brian's phrase, "Wallop it with your Pivot" is what your need to learn. On the other hand, maybe you really can't learn to do it. That's why we have the handcap system.
Now that I think about it, I have a friend who pretty much does the same thing. Hits drives 280 - 300, sometimes in the fairway. When he gets down to say 120 yards and less, he can't (won't learn to) hit it with any finesse. I've seen him take a full swing with a lob wedge from 40 yards and fly it 50 over the green. He has a 22 handicap. He has griped to me about his scoring. I have told him that nothing will change until he learns to throttle back.
Here's a thought. Build yourself a little moveable wall sort of thing, or get a large corrugated box. Put this parallel to your target line just outside the clubhead. Make it high enough so that you can't hurt yourself. Now if you
make that extreme outside - in swing you won't hurt yourself if you hit the wall.
I take you at your word, but I think you just don't understand how to do it. Brian's phrase, "Wallop it with your Pivot" is what your need to learn. On the other hand, maybe you really can't learn to do it. That's why we have the handcap system.
Now that I think about it, I have a friend who pretty much does the same thing. Hits drives 280 - 300, sometimes in the fairway. When he gets down to say 120 yards and less, he can't (won't learn to) hit it with any finesse. I've seen him take a full swing with a lob wedge from 40 yards and fly it 50 over the green. He has a 22 handicap. He has griped to me about his scoring. I have told him that nothing will change until he learns to throttle back.
Here's a thought. Build yourself a little moveable wall sort of thing, or get a large corrugated box. Put this parallel to your target line just outside the clubhead. Make it high enough so that you can't hurt yourself. Now if you
make that extreme outside - in swing you won't hurt yourself if you hit the wall.
birly-shirly
New
Frans - I've been fighting the opposite tendencies to yours throughout the summer. I swing in-to-out and hit an open face hook. The biggest single thing for me in getting my swing path squared up was consciously slowing my tempo. I took maybe 30-40 yards off my average mid or long iron until I could actually feel what was going on in my swing. If I felt I was still turning the club over, I aimed at an even closer target and worked on not hitting the ball past it.
To me, if you can't slow your swing down and make decent contact as a practice drill, then you're not losing timing and feeling. It's more that you didn't have it in the first place. I know I didn't.
The good news, at least for me, is that I didn't actually lose much distance in the long run (and by "long run" I mean less than a month of practicing twice a week). I think my swing is now a little bit slower in tempo, but probably better sequenced and my distance hasn't really changed. There's always a tendency to revert back to your "stock" settings - but hopefully when you do this, you do it with a better awareness of what your swing is doing.
The other thing I'm not clear on from this thread is whether you see your main problem as the OTT swing or an open clubface. If you're working on twistaway, then what you should see and what you should take as a good result is a pretty nasty pull/pull hook. I think if you're working on this sort of swing change, then you had better anticipate, and welcome, a new species of bad shot that you're not used to seeing. Whatever you do, you can't afford to panic when you see your ball diving into the left rough. That way lies your road to recovery.
If you're primarily working on your path, rather than face, and if you can't make a more in-line path even with a half-strength swing - then I think you need to do some reps without a ball. You're talking about hitting 300 balls in practice and it doesn't seem to be helping. You need to find a way to ingrain the feeling of the right swing path - and that might require trying to relearn your swing without the distraction of trying to hit the ball. Mirror practice without a ball, half-swings with a ball, then slow full swings might be the learning progression you need. But if you lose the ability to control what you're working on for at least half your swings, then you've progressed too fast and you need to go back a step.
Frans@France
New
In my mind it's all about path and not face control. I will have no trouble to hit the same outside-in path but with the clubface 18 degrees closed creating a big pull hook.
half-strength swing, been there done it, can't get it to work. The OTT move keeps the path outside.
Yes, that is the problem. Sometimes the swing just works and I can describe the feel of that swing, I can not repeate it however. 4 weeks ago first 9 holes +4, second 9 holes +(lost count). Two days ago : path +1, face 0.0, a bit to shallow, feeling was like hitting it with my rights side, hit 20/30 balls like that..... 10 minutes later...... swing & feeling gone...back to the 8 degree outside in.
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Frans@France
New
Cool.
The thing that stands out most, is that your shoulder turn at the top is nearly level to the ground. Then you tip it towards the ball so you can establish some sort of plane to get back to the ball. When you are making that shift, it throws your arms over the top.
How about simply starting the backswing with a steeper shoulder turn that is maintained to the top.
The thing that stands out most, is that your shoulder turn at the top is nearly level to the ground. Then you tip it towards the ball so you can establish some sort of plane to get back to the ball. When you are making that shift, it throws your arms over the top.
How about simply starting the backswing with a steeper shoulder turn that is maintained to the top.
birly-shirly
New
Exactly. I think you're going to have to go through a quota of nasty pull hooks before you get through this. You've got to treat those "bad" shots as feedback that you're heading in the right direction. If you're scared of hitting the pull-hook, you'll not get this fixed, IMOP.
fair enough - but that just says to me that you've got to slow the transition right down until you can feel yourself letting the club fall to the inside rather than re-routing OTT.
Describing the move isn't even half the battle. You need to be able to feel it vividly - and eventually it needs to feel like the natural response to a ball being in front of you. I think, to get there, I would play the course less [at first] and hit fewer balls in practice [at first] - but I would try to hit a smaller number of practice balls with the greatest possible focus. And if you can't manage a 50% success rate in practice, then move away from hitting balls as you're only ingraining your fault. Go back to mirror practice, slow motion swings and work up to hitting balls gradually. Half-shots, then full-shots at half strength before hitting full out. Go back a stage if you're not making progress.
And see this - Why Slow Movement Builds Coordination Better Movement
And download and read this - Practice To Win
softconsult
New
Can't resist this observation.
Here we have a guy who apparently has access to Trackman, an indoor hitting area, perhaps in his house.
Says he can't swing more slowly, says he doesn't believe face control is an issue (yet early in thread ageed to work on face control recommendation by Jim K.), and sounds like he is
wedded to an outside in path. But inspite of all the technical feedback (Trackman) he doesn't seem able
to adjust. I don't get it. However, it just may be that Frans is not that athletic as far a golf is concerned. It's a very difficult sport.
The masses of golfers that can't break 100 have an advantage. They aren't trying to really get much better and don't really care that much. Oh they say they do, but they don't care to expend the effort. In a big way they are more balanced and less addicted to this crazy game.
Frans is trying hard, and is understandably frustrated. But you can't expect to get better if you basically say that you will not, or cannot, do some of basic things offered to you on this forum.
Here we have a guy who apparently has access to Trackman, an indoor hitting area, perhaps in his house.
Says he can't swing more slowly, says he doesn't believe face control is an issue (yet early in thread ageed to work on face control recommendation by Jim K.), and sounds like he is
wedded to an outside in path. But inspite of all the technical feedback (Trackman) he doesn't seem able
to adjust. I don't get it. However, it just may be that Frans is not that athletic as far a golf is concerned. It's a very difficult sport.
The masses of golfers that can't break 100 have an advantage. They aren't trying to really get much better and don't really care that much. Oh they say they do, but they don't care to expend the effort. In a big way they are more balanced and less addicted to this crazy game.
Frans is trying hard, and is understandably frustrated. But you can't expect to get better if you basically say that you will not, or cannot, do some of basic things offered to you on this forum.
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