October '03- Never Slice Again!

[EdZ]

You can use a lot of ways to get to the top..... the secret is lead forearm rotation on the downswing, in synch with body turn, hands centered with the belly button/chest.

Lead forearm rotation, keeps you on plane (think gyroscope), squares the clubface, and actually helps everything else 'synch'.

It can be overdone.... the key is keeping things rotating at constant (or increasing), smooth, rates, together.

The right wrist back just helps get that rotation in synch a little easier (although be careful, as you may end up hooking)

Hogan allowed the 'cup' in the wrist, and pointed the clubface more down at the top, so he could rotate the forearm hard all the way through and not hook.

The right wrist back approach lets you allow the club to 'fall', with more natural rotation of the trunk and forearms.

Experiment with both.....

 

[bonkerz]

Edz,
I agree with you about Brian's article. Decent article for a higher handicap slicer. Leadbetter has said this before, though.

 

[NikeBlades]

Good article Brian,
Thanks,
Alex

 

[Tball88]

Great article Brian. One problem I have is that for some reason the left wrist wants to start moving from a "flat" or "arched" position at the top to cupping at the bottom of the downswing(maybe it's the law of opposites). Any advice,tips,or drills on how to maintain the position throughout the swing?

 

[Martee]

Good Write up.

you have mail.

 

[efnef]

quote:Originally posted by Tball88

Great article Brian. One problem I have is that for some reason the left wrist wants to start moving from a "flat" or "arched" position at the top to cupping at the bottom of the downswing(maybe it's the law of opposites). Any advice,tips,or drills on how to maintain the position throughout the swing?

Hmmm. . . Sounds like you might have a bit of a reverse pivot during your downswing. This could lead to casting which results in breakdown.

 

[Brian Manzella]

As far as ED and bonkerz comments...

I KNOW FOR A FACT that no where in the HISTORY of print, is there a ANTIslice article with TWIST AWAY on the back swing and the SWIVEL the way I show it...

Show me.

As for LEADBETTER...NEVER EVER has he EVER EVER written an article with this information.

But thanks for the comments.....

 

[bts]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

quote:Originally posted by bts

Sounds like a "Hitting" procedure.

Why do you say that?

By looking at picture 7, in which the right side (arm, elbow, hand and finger) is lined up ready to PUSH.

 

[bonkerz]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

As far as ED and bonkerz comments...

I KNOW FOR A FACT that no where in the HISTORY of print, is there a ANTIslice article with TWIST AWAY on the back swing and the SWIVEL the way I show it...

Show me.

As for LEADBETTER...NEVER EVER has he EVER EVER written an article with this information.

But thanks for the comments.....

You're probably correct. I will try to find what I mean, but after I post it, you'll probably be able to show me that it's not the same.

Anyway, it's great that you are covering this topic. I don't think I hear enough detail about this in typical golf instruction.

Thanks

 

[Brian Manzella]

quote:Originally posted by bcoak

Brian,
I have a question regarding the the pics comparing the right wrist bend method vs. the wristcock method. There is a drill that is widely taught where you assume your stance, hold the club parallel to the ground, cock your wrists up , and then turn to the top to be in the "correct" position. Can you do this drill with your method to get to your proper/taught position?
thanks.

Thanks bcoak for a great HALL OF FAME! question.

The answer is this drill that they teach with the club cocking straight up and then turn to get to the top is WRONG WRONG WRONG!

The club would be DEAD open at the top, off plane, and over your head

 

[bonkerz]

Brian,
I think you said a while back something to the effect: you must lag the sweetspot. It has to be offplane on the downswing.

Are you doing this in the pictures above?

 

[DougT]

Thanks for the articles Brian! I've been slicing the driver since attending 3 day school at a Leadbeter academy. They diagnosed me as having a flat laid off swing and in the process of making my swing steeper I have developed a bent left wrist at the top of the swing which I didn't notice until I read this !

 

[EdZ]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

As far as ED and bonkerz comments...

I KNOW FOR A FACT that no where in the HISTORY of print, is there a ANTIslice article with TWIST AWAY on the back swing and the SWIVEL the way I show it...

Show me.

As for LEADBETTER...NEVER EVER has he EVER EVER written an article with this information.

But thanks for the comments.....

"the golf swing of the future" Mindy Blake 1971


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...103-3903182-2508651?v=glance&s=books&n=507846


He spoke of a different grip, but the action is the same (Dante has a similar view, I'll find you some page numbers)

And while I agree the 'twist' is a good 'feel' for slicers to have, if they actually DO it, they are asking for pull smoothered hooks, and big, big blocks....

and swivel.... come on, that is the secret to the swing, page 102 of Hogan's 5 fundamentals, you just take it to the extreme

 

[Brian Manzella]

Now ED...let's get something straight.

I can learn to PAINT as well as picasco in about a year...

But, what's my odds of creating ART like he did?

Now MAYBE bits and pieces of my stuff can be found some places (not why you slice more with a reverse pivot<etc times 50)

But nowhere has an article said what this one did.

 

[EdZ]

Yeah..... you used the word "twist".... others just say "feel like you are closing the clubface on your backswing... keep your left wrist flat"..... and the right wrist position, well, several people (as quoted already), and including Bobby Jones in his How to Break 90 series (action/feel of the right hand through impact)..... Greg Norman's "Secret"...

Bits and pieces? Come on Brian..... you know better than that, you think in the hundreds of years people have been playing golf, YOU have found something they didn't?

I know you can help people play.... but please, get over the ego before your head explodes!


Still waiting for something original from you.....

 

[benhogan54]

Ed,
I have never heard of keeping the left wrist flat and right wrist bent all the way through to the finish before. Brian is the first I have ever seen explain that. Most instructors have you flatten the right wrist out into the followthrough and finish ending with a cupped left wrist. Brian simply has you roll the left arm and keep the wrist relationship throughout.

 

[FanofHogan]

Well, irregardless of how many people have said it or not before, Brian is the first to say it in a way that it gets through to me. Ed, no dissrespect, but I wish you would come up with something more original than trying to discredit Brian here. Yeah, he has a big ego and i think he'd be the first to tell you that. But, which is worse, someone with a big ego or someone who goes to great lengths to burst said ego? You're a sharp guy when it comes to the golf swing. Lets use that knowledge to help us that arent so sharp instead of trying to goad one another into an argument. If an argument isnt your intent then what is it? The very first lesson I ever had the guy told me all about lagging the sweetspot, but he never actually said those words. He said things like picture a kid siwnging a long heavy club. Feel like the club is floating at the top of the swing before it comes down. I am thankful for what Brian tells us whether it's been said or alluded to before by whomever. He says it in ways that I can relate to.

 

[EdZ]

quote:Originally posted by FanofHogan

Well, irregardless of how many people have said it or not before, Brian is the first to say it in a way that it gets through to me. Ed, no dissrespect, but I wish you would come up with something more original than trying to discredit Brian here. Yeah, he has a big ego and i think he'd be the first to tell you that. But, which is worse, someone with a big ego or someone who goes to great lengths to burst said ego? You're a sharp guy when it comes to the golf swing. Lets use that knowledge to help us that arent so sharp instead of trying to goad one another into an argument. If an argument isnt your intent then what is it? The very first lesson I ever had the guy told me all about lagging the sweetspot, but he never actually said those words. He said things like picture a kid siwnging a long heavy club. Feel like the club is floating at the top of the swing before it comes down. I am thankful for what Brian tells us whether it's been said or alluded to before by whomever. He says it in ways that I can relate to.

I agree with you..... and if you (or anyone else) would like my views on how to swing, I will gladly share them with you. You are missing a bit of history re: Brian's ego and how he treats others views however. While I completely agree that he is capable of helping people 'get it', so are many, many others. When he goes off on his "I am better than you, or anyone else" rants, it is annoying to many, and I for one think he should be called on it. In my view, people who are really good at what they do, earn respect through results, not by simply exploding their egos while putting down others. I have seen this way too often from him. If you seach back through this forum, and FGI, you will see that I have suggested he tone it down, and this should be "about golf" and "helping people play better". I have no doubt Brian can help people, but he should do so by respecting those that have come before him, and not suggesting that "he" alone has found all the answers. He often states that he has 'original' info, and I honestly keep requesting to see something that is actually 'new'. I also suspect that the banter on these sites comes off differently than intended (most of the time). For the most part, I'm just giving him a hard time.... he deserves it!

Glad to hear that you are improving your golf....

 

[Dentman]

Excellent writing Brian!

Could you clarify a couple of point for me?

1. Is the wrist action just a horizontal hinge back of the right wrist with *no* vertical cocking of the left wrist at all?

2. At what point in the back swing does the hinge begin?

3. Do you actively hinge the wrist or let the weight of the club do it?

I have been working with your grip procedure for the past week and have at last corrected my hook, although I still fight the urge to turn my left hand in a stronger position. Today I hit a load balls with your neutral grip and horizontal wrist hinge method and was staggered at the consistency of the ball flight. I even tried the driver and found I was hitting the sweet spot time after time - a very rare occurrence for me.

Looking forward to your next article on compressing the ball.

 

[Ryan Smither]

Three words for ya:

I HEAR FOOTSTEPS.

(and so does EdZ)