October '03- Never Slice Again!

[EdZ]

I hear nothing I haven't heard before! (except Brians ego)

 

[EdZ]

quote:Originally posted by benhogan54

Ed,
I have never heard of keeping the left wrist flat and right wrist bent all the way through to the finish before. Brian is the first I have ever seen explain that. Most instructors have you flatten the right wrist out into the followthrough and finish ending with a cupped left wrist. Brian simply has you roll the left arm and keep the wrist relationship throughout.

http://www.freegolfinfo.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=40222

Note the date...

 

[bonkerz]

quote:Originally posted by benhogan54

Ed,
I have never heard of keeping the left wrist flat and right wrist bent all the way through to the finish before. Brian is the first I have ever seen explain that. Most instructors have you flatten the right wrist out into the followthrough and finish ending with a cupped left wrist. Brian simply has you roll the left arm and keep the wrist relationship throughout.

It's been said by several instructors. It's obviously not essential to keep the right wrist bent until the finish, but anyway, instructors have said it before.
Didn't Mark Evershed, on his video from the early 90s (which included clips of Moe) say that?

 

[bonkerz]

quote:Originally posted by FanofHogan

Well, irregardless of how many people have said it or not before, Brian is the first to say it in a way that it gets through to me. Ed, no dissrespect, but I wish you would come up with something more original than trying to discredit Brian here. Yeah, he has a big ego and i think he'd be the first to tell you that. But, which is worse, someone with a big ego or someone who goes to great lengths to burst said ego? You're a sharp guy when it comes to the golf swing. Lets use that knowledge to help us that arent so sharp instead of trying to goad one another into an argument. If an argument isnt your intent then what is it? The very first lesson I ever had the guy told me all about lagging the sweetspot, but he never actually said those words. He said things like picture a kid siwnging a long heavy club. Feel like the club is floating at the top of the swing before it comes down. I am thankful for what Brian tells us whether it's been said or alluded to before by whomever. He says it in ways that I can relate to.

I'm sure Edz just wants to read some great stuff. I don't think he's seen anything really impressive.

And, Redgoat said Brian moves back on his downswing. I can't see the video anymore. But, if that's the case, and he wants to keep a bent right hand through impact and followthrough, then why doesn't he have a more dynamic move through the ball--which would make keeping the right-hand bent, a no-brainer.

 

[EdZ]

Since FanofHogan asked.... just thought I would add some drills, I have previously posted these on FGI


A couple drills I would add to Brian's article, that may help people understand the 'feel' of the "swivel" as Brian called it... (the feel of the arms/body, and hand rotation)

Known as the EdZ Drill #1 (all drills copyright EdZ 2003


Stand in golf posture, no club, arms hanging, left palm faces left thigh, right palm faces target (in a -| shape)

point your left thumb towards your right palm

split your ring/middle fingers of your right hand in a "V", and put your left thumb between them (ala "spock's live long and prosper)

now make swings of your arms, keeping your right palm facing the ball\plane at least to hip high

allow the rotation through the impact area......feel the left thumb/plane back and through.


And for body motion.....

EdZ Drill #2


Start similar to #1, arms hang in posture, but interlock your fingers as if you were going to boost\lift someone, thumbs point away from you.

Do this with something heavy in your hands, a bowling ball is good, and just by itself...

Just allow the body to 'flow' with the swing of the arms and the weight.

Last drill.....

Plane -

get a laser on the both ends of a club, and keep it pointing to the targetline throughout the swing

Finally, target focus - always.
Balance - always.
Feel the clubhead - always.
On Plane - always.

Focus on a "window" in the sky that is the apex of your shot (love this image, from Toski, or Love I believe)

 

[FanofHogan]

Ed.. I saw the whole thing at FGI. Yeah Brian can learn a few things when it comes to internet conversations. But, this isnt FGI. This is the Manzella golf forum. Maybe I am wrong in how I have read things on this forum but I dont recall Brian bringing up FGI until some of the regulars over there came over here and started in on the same tired old stuff. From what I can see, Brian is trying to leave that nonsense behind. Thanks for the tips. I seem to remember them from FGI, but they are helpful none the less. THAT is what I want to see from all of you guys. You all have great things to share. And Bonkerz, if Ed wants to see great stuff and hasnt been impressed thus far, there are plenty of other forums available. Dont take that as a snide remark because It isnt how I intend it, but much like television, if you dont like what is on-turn the channel or turn it off.

 

[Eagletau]

Now that the tumult & shouting has died down a little, -
Congratulations on a fine article, Brian.

I know many won't believe it but none other than Nick Faldo covers a lot of this material in his book, not as succinctly as Brian, but in interesting detail.

Brian, I have one question, and I am not nitpicking. It concerns the "oiliness" of the wrists as defined originally by SS. Your article in its necessary concentration on position will have people locking their wrists in position - when we know that the fluidity or oiliness of the wrists is a large contributor to lag and distance.

Maybe you disagree - it's your party.

 

[Eagletau]

Now that the tumult & shouting has died down a little, -
Congratulations on a fine article, Brian.

I know many won't believe it but none other than Nick Faldo covers a lot of this material in his book, not as succinctly as Brian, but in interesting detail.

Brian, I have one question, and I am not nitpicking. It concerns the "oiliness" of the wrists as defined originally by SS. Your article in its necessary concentration on position will have people locking their wrists in position - when we know that the fluidity or oiliness of the wrists is a large contributor to lag and distance.

Maybe you disagree - it's your party.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Ok Edz....

Since you are DIEing for me to GIVE (give) for free something that I came up with...OK I will...

But you have to guess one more time...

QUESTION::::Why do people who reverse pivot tend to slice more (even Colin Montgomerie)????

One more LAME guess and I will GIVE you the answer for free....

 

[ragman]

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

You can use a lot of ways to get to the top..... the secret is lead forearm rotation on the downswing, in synch with body turn, hands centered with the belly button/chest.

Lead forearm rotation, keeps you on plane (think gyroscope), squares the clubface, and actually helps everything else 'synch'.

It can be overdone.... the key is keeping things rotating at constant (or increasing), smooth, rates, together.

The right wrist back just helps get that rotation in synch a little easier (although be careful, as you may end up hooking)

Hogan allowed the 'cup' in the wrist, and pointed the clubface more down at the top, so he could rotate the forearm hard all the way through and not hook.

The right wrist back approach lets you allow the club to 'fall', with more natural rotation of the trunk and forearms.

Experiment with both.....

Sounds like a good generic post, might even help some people...

"I'm still waitin for something original from you though...."

 

[geoffb]

Brian: I just got back from the driving range where I practised the procedure from your latest article and now I'm hooking the ball. It's starting out at the target and hooking about 10 metres.
What am I doing wrong? I think I might be bringing it back too much on the inside? Maybe I need to take it back more up & around rather than around & up???

Any help from anyone appreciated please. My club Championships start tomorrow.

Thanks.

 

[6bee1dee]

quote:Originally posted by benhogan54

Ed,
I have never heard of keeping the left wrist flat and right wrist bent all the way through to the finish before. Brian is the first I have ever seen explain that. Most instructors have you flatten the right wrist out into the followthrough and finish ending with a cupped left wrist. Brian simply has you roll the left arm and keep the wrist relationship throughout.

first: nice anti slice piece Brian, well done.
second: Mark Evershed has been a champion of the right bend wrist for a LONG time, calls it the "canadian move" and did I wonderful two day Acadamy Live with good 'ol Peter a few years back. check out:

http://www.t-g-s.com/

again, nice stuff Brian.....and yes, I love the Dante book too, a dumbed down (in a good sense) version of a classic TGM swing.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Keep your hips AHEAD of your hands

Keep your hands AHEAD of the clubhead through the ball

Keep the clubface OPEN at impact

Make sure your left thumb is close to or UNDER the club at the top (and still have a flat left wrist)

call me if you need a quick fix at 502.417.4653

 

[geoffb]

quote:
Keep your hips AHEAD of your hands

Keep your hands AHEAD of the clubhead through the ball

Keep the clubface OPEN at impact

Make sure your left thumb is close to or UNDER the club at the top (and still have a flat left wrist)

call me if you need a quick fix at 502.417.4653

Thanks Brian, I'll keep those thoughts in mind when I'm warming up tomorrow.

There's one thing I'm not clear on though. From a feel perspective in the backswing, should I use my right wrist bend to flatten out my left OR use my left wrist to bend my right OR try to use both wrists/hands together?

Thanks again...

 

[Brian Manzella]

You can do either...BUT...

If I was trying to make sure my left thumb was under while my left wrist was flat, I would think left.

But It doesn't matter.

 

[bcoak]

EdZ,
are you a teaching pro? If so, what type of player do you teach predominately, ie, scratch, ladies, old men, etc. Not trying to be wise, just trying to figure you out.

 

[EdZ]

quote:Originally posted by bcoak

EdZ,
are you a teaching pro? If so, what type of player do you teach predominately, ie, scratch, ladies, old men, etc. Not trying to be wise, just trying to figure you out.

Take a guess...

 

[EdZ]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Ok Edz....

Since you are DIEing for me to GIVE (give) for free something that I came up with...OK I will...

But you have to guess one more time...

QUESTION::::Why do people who reverse pivot tend to slice more (even Colin Montgomerie)????

One more LAME guess and I will GIVE you the answer for free....

plane shift, the "center point" or 'hub' of the swing is altered, which effectively makes it impossible to have proper forearm rotation, and in fact leads to clockwise rotation and the club can 'only' come from the outside (unless they like to hit the big ball first)

Let the body/weight flow with the swinging clubhead, which stabilzes the 'hub', keeps the club on plane, and 'allows' the proper forearm rotation.

And as far as 'giving' anything.... you can spend all day explaining what 'not' to do in a swing, and why.... better to tell people 'what' to do, and why.

I'm giving you a hard time, because you keep up the ego crap, and have yet to justify any of it with original thought (Ragman, have you seen my drill #1 before, that, to my knowledge, IS original thought, which I gladly share, unlike some)

 

[Michael Finney]

edz....i think you may have a bigger ego than brian.....and that, my friend, is saying PLENTY.......

just stay here long enough to cull the best ideas from brian...for free.....so you can tell your students you've got an exciting new drill....give me a break......i honestly hope you're not like the others at the fgi casanostra......

 

[bcoak]

old ladies Edz?