October '03- Never Slice Again!
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
- Start date
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EdZ said:
Yes, you're right about debate & discussion about golf not about Manzella & your obsession with him.
The best, you say? Who gives a rat's a..., who is the best.
There's no competition in heaven.
Your obsession is taking up a lot of space when brevity is the soul of wit.
Trying to show you respect by reading your posts but it becomes tiresome when you repeat the same old Manzella song. Try to consider what others want to read, and learn.
Yes, you're right about debate & discussion about golf not about Manzella & your obsession with him.
The best, you say? Who gives a rat's a..., who is the best.
There's no competition in heaven.
Your obsession is taking up a lot of space when brevity is the soul of wit.
Trying to show you respect by reading your posts but it becomes tiresome when you repeat the same old Manzella song. Try to consider what others want to read, and learn.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Trying for tonight...just got Home
Brian Manzella
Administrator
scoof....
I know you have read this...I read it too.
It is wrong.
This is the WAY they do it, but TRUST ME, they (mostly) have NO idea what they are doing.
I know you have read this...I read it too.
It is wrong.
This is the WAY they do it, but TRUST ME, they (mostly) have NO idea what they are doing.
groovething
New
Brian,
I am a PGA Member and have taken some lessons from Greg Mc Hatton and Jim Petralia. I just got back "into" teaching and playing GOLF after 12 years of designing putters and putting training aids. Your ability to put forth and explain fundamentals is impressive. Will recommend having you come out to So. CAl to our section Teaching seminar next year. We recently had Randy Smith speak. HE covered some good ways to look at golf swings and ways to improve our abilities to coach/teach. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing.
Sincerly,
JO
I am a PGA Member and have taken some lessons from Greg Mc Hatton and Jim Petralia. I just got back "into" teaching and playing GOLF after 12 years of designing putters and putting training aids. Your ability to put forth and explain fundamentals is impressive. Will recommend having you come out to So. CAl to our section Teaching seminar next year. We recently had Randy Smith speak. HE covered some good ways to look at golf swings and ways to improve our abilities to coach/teach. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing.
Sincerly,
JO
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I would be honored...and thrilled!
Great article Brian. I personally prefer a very slight cup in my left wrist at the top, but I love your impact position. If everyone can get to your impact position, golf intructors are going to go out of business ... 
Have you heard of a training aid called "Swingyde"?
www.swingyde.com.au
Someone (goes by the name of dognut) on the Single Axis forum has suggested an alternative way of using the Swingyde that may help to feel the idea that you are portraying in your article. Here's an exerpt from a post of mine illustrating his ideas.
--------------------------------------
I have drawn a couple of diagrams to make it clearer. Dognut may want to add or correct anything that may be different to his way of doing it.
Install the Swingyde upside down so that it fits onto the butt end of the club. Here is a diagram.
http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1068420338.JPG
The Swingyde should be rotated 15 to 30 degrees clockwise from the leading edge so that if you looked down the shaft from the butt end of the club, it would look something like this:
http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1068420467.JPG
You'll find that the butt end of the grip is a bit too thick for the Swingyde. You won't be able to put the nut and bolt on. Just use a piece of string or one of those cables with teeth on it to secure the Swingyde.
Start with some gentle half to three quarter shots. Take the club back until the hands are around chest/shoulder height. The Swingyde should be barely touching the inside of the left forearm where the wrist watch band is. (BTW, you may want to wear the sweat band that came with the Swingyde over the wrist watch).
Now swing slowly down to the impact position and feel the pressure of the Swingyde on the inside of the left forearm INCREASING. Do whatever the hands need to do to feel this increase in pressure. If you look in the mirror, you'll notice that the back of the left wrist is becoming BOWED. (See picture of Hogan's raised wristbone in his book "Five Lessons" page 102)
Now swing gently through to the mirror shoulder high position on the followthrough. The pressure should have eased off somewhat, but the Swingyde should still touch the inside of the left forearm. You'll notice that the back of the left wrist may be slightly cupped but is still relatively flat. The palm of the left hand should now look somewhat towards the sky (i.e. the left forearm supinated and the left hand turned over).
When you are comfortable with this, try hitting some gentle 9 iron shots, feeling the same solid hand action through impact. You'll find that the contact is crisp.
Just to finish off, let me add that I think dognut's way of using the Swingyde is better than any other training aid or method that teaches you to keep the left wrist flat through impact. The tactile feedback from the Swingyde and the fact that you have to use the correct muscle action in order to achieve the pressure from the SG on the left forearm makes this ideal for learning. No verbal thoughts. Just feel the pressure and observe what you have to do.
--------------------------------
If you have a Swingyde, try it and see what you think.
Cheers,
Jono.
Have you heard of a training aid called "Swingyde"?
www.swingyde.com.au
Someone (goes by the name of dognut) on the Single Axis forum has suggested an alternative way of using the Swingyde that may help to feel the idea that you are portraying in your article. Here's an exerpt from a post of mine illustrating his ideas.
--------------------------------------
I have drawn a couple of diagrams to make it clearer. Dognut may want to add or correct anything that may be different to his way of doing it.
Install the Swingyde upside down so that it fits onto the butt end of the club. Here is a diagram.
http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1068420338.JPG
The Swingyde should be rotated 15 to 30 degrees clockwise from the leading edge so that if you looked down the shaft from the butt end of the club, it would look something like this:
http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1068420467.JPG
You'll find that the butt end of the grip is a bit too thick for the Swingyde. You won't be able to put the nut and bolt on. Just use a piece of string or one of those cables with teeth on it to secure the Swingyde.
Start with some gentle half to three quarter shots. Take the club back until the hands are around chest/shoulder height. The Swingyde should be barely touching the inside of the left forearm where the wrist watch band is. (BTW, you may want to wear the sweat band that came with the Swingyde over the wrist watch).
Now swing slowly down to the impact position and feel the pressure of the Swingyde on the inside of the left forearm INCREASING. Do whatever the hands need to do to feel this increase in pressure. If you look in the mirror, you'll notice that the back of the left wrist is becoming BOWED. (See picture of Hogan's raised wristbone in his book "Five Lessons" page 102)
Now swing gently through to the mirror shoulder high position on the followthrough. The pressure should have eased off somewhat, but the Swingyde should still touch the inside of the left forearm. You'll notice that the back of the left wrist may be slightly cupped but is still relatively flat. The palm of the left hand should now look somewhat towards the sky (i.e. the left forearm supinated and the left hand turned over).
When you are comfortable with this, try hitting some gentle 9 iron shots, feeling the same solid hand action through impact. You'll find that the contact is crisp.
Just to finish off, let me add that I think dognut's way of using the Swingyde is better than any other training aid or method that teaches you to keep the left wrist flat through impact. The tactile feedback from the Swingyde and the fact that you have to use the correct muscle action in order to achieve the pressure from the SG on the left forearm makes this ideal for learning. No verbal thoughts. Just feel the pressure and observe what you have to do.
--------------------------------
If you have a Swingyde, try it and see what you think.
Cheers,
Jono.
Hmmm ... it's working on my computer. Oh well, here's the link to the thread on the SA forum:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=72052&messageid=1068422111
I hope this works, but if not, let me know.
Cheers,
Jono.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I could get it easy...don't know what the problem was...
Brian, your article gets some discussion on the GEA-Board:
http://forums.prospero.com/golfequip/messages?msg=136423.1
http://forums.prospero.com/golfequip/messages?msg=136423.1
kmille1398
New
Hi Brian,
I have become a fan of your articles, especially the ones on grip, lagging the clubhead, and curing the slice. I have played most of my golfing life with a cupped left wrist at the top of my swing. My pro has tried to work with me to get that wrist flat at the top. One way to get there is to neutalize my grip, as you demonstrated in your article. I think the problem I have is the compensation or move I must make in my takeaway to get that wrist flat. I read with great interest that part of your article where you demonstrate the correct wrist cock the right wrist must make, which puts the left wrist in the correct flat position. My question concerns where in the backswing this right wrist move takes place. I think for so long the notion of a one piece takeaway has been so ingrained in me, the thought of a conscious move on my part where my right wrist moves like this seems foreign to me. Sorry for the wordy reply, but thanks for all the help.
Kevin
I have become a fan of your articles, especially the ones on grip, lagging the clubhead, and curing the slice. I have played most of my golfing life with a cupped left wrist at the top of my swing. My pro has tried to work with me to get that wrist flat at the top. One way to get there is to neutalize my grip, as you demonstrated in your article. I think the problem I have is the compensation or move I must make in my takeaway to get that wrist flat. I read with great interest that part of your article where you demonstrate the correct wrist cock the right wrist must make, which puts the left wrist in the correct flat position. My question concerns where in the backswing this right wrist move takes place. I think for so long the notion of a one piece takeaway has been so ingrained in me, the thought of a conscious move on my part where my right wrist moves like this seems foreign to me. Sorry for the wordy reply, but thanks for all the help.
Kevin
Nike Faldo has in his book Golf - The Winning Formula. Bending the right wrist back on itself is one of the keys he stresses. He says that cocking the wrist up and down is not the correct way of setting the wrist. He goes on to say that folding the right wrist back on itself is the proper wrist set and gives what is know as the late hit.
He shows a drill where the first move you make is bending the right wrist back at address so it turns the left wrist while lifting the shaft parallel to the ground and plane line. From here you make a shoulder turn lifting the arms to the top.
I quote Faldo; "To develope the feeling of the correct movement, hinge the right wrist backwards so that the clubshaft is set parallel to the ground and parallel to the direction you are going to hit the ball. Simply hinge it backwards, easing the right elbow into your stomack and right hip". This is just about identidcal to what you show in your article.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Welcome Dave...
I would love you to post a lot on my site, as you tell it like you see it.
PLENTY people talk about the right wrist bend. My point was the twist away in BOTH directions is mine
I would love you to post a lot on my site, as you tell it like you see it.
PLENTY people talk about the right wrist bend. My point was the twist away in BOTH directions is mine
I appreciate the invite Brian but I think I'll decline. This is YOUR forum. Also note that I don't post on Chuck Evans forum either. In my view posting on your forum would be like stepping in while you're trying to give someone a lesson.
I was reading through the messages when I came across yours and thought I needed to make you aware of what Faldo has written in his book.
Anyways, good luck with this forum and your teaching career.
Brian,
I'm behind on this lesson a bit, but a colleague on FGI pointed me to your grip article and this anti-slice article when I posted about making the change from a strong to a neutral grip this winter (http://www.freegolfinfo.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=59175).
I have just have a couple small questions on the role of the left hand in all this which I hope you can answerfor me:
1. When I do this movement that you describe with the right hand, should the left wrist be "held off" from cocking? Until the very end or not 'cocked' at all? What is that the feeling you want me to go after?
2. Are you ok with people having a slightly stronger (2½ - 3 knuckles) grip for driver, woods, long irons and then going to completely neutral on mid short irons? Or do you advocate one grip for all. I just find driver easier to square (and I get more power) when I grip slightly stronger. I notice a lot of pros seem to do this too.
Thanks.
Hugh - Ireland.
I'm behind on this lesson a bit, but a colleague on FGI pointed me to your grip article and this anti-slice article when I posted about making the change from a strong to a neutral grip this winter (http://www.freegolfinfo.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=59175).
I have just have a couple small questions on the role of the left hand in all this which I hope you can answerfor me:
1. When I do this movement that you describe with the right hand, should the left wrist be "held off" from cocking? Until the very end or not 'cocked' at all? What is that the feeling you want me to go after?
2. Are you ok with people having a slightly stronger (2½ - 3 knuckles) grip for driver, woods, long irons and then going to completely neutral on mid short irons? Or do you advocate one grip for all. I just find driver easier to square (and I get more power) when I grip slightly stronger. I notice a lot of pros seem to do this too.
Thanks.
Hugh - Ireland.
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